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SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/12/19 7:02 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

I’m sure that the GRM staff would grandfather them in, but I’m not sure how that is relevant. Girthquake’s car was never a Challenger car. 

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
2/14/19 9:47 p.m.

Any reason homemade seats would be frowned upon?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/18/19 4:27 p.m.
barefootskater said:

Any reason homemade seats would be frowned upon?

It's been done well, and done poorly.

One person made their own reproduction Kirkey race seats.  Almost identical.  That was applauded.

If it was made of plywood, or a lawn chair, it would be frowned upon.

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
3/14/19 11:14 a.m.

So I know seat belts are budget exempt, but what are the exact requirements? Our car came with shoulder belts that we won't be able to use due to a drastic change in seating position. Would lap belts be sufficient? We will not have a cage, but if we need more than lap belts we'll need a harness bar, and in that case are 4pt harnesses ok or would we need 5pt harnesses? Thanks

(the math says we should expect low 14s in the 1/4, if that info is relevant.)

 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
3/14/19 12:25 p.m.

You know, we didn't have a rule clarifying this. Here it is: 

 

(Added 3/14/19): Every entry is required to have a seat belt or harness for the driver. OEM three-point seat belts may be retained. If the OEM belt is not three-point, or if the driver’s seating position has been modified significantly, then a racing harness is required. Racing harnesses must have a minimum of five points, and may be no more than two years old. Older harnesses that have been professionally re-webbed, inspected and re-certified within the previous two years are acceptable.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/14/19 12:34 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Would an OEM seat with integral 3 point belts qualify if properly bolted into a vehicle that either came with no belts or lap belts only?

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
3/14/19 12:50 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Thanks!

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
3/21/19 3:09 p.m.

So free stuff needs to be available to anyone. Are we allowed to solicit for free stuff?

Say we want a muffler because driving the car 2200mi and no overdrive/V8, and say there is a local muffler shop that does a lot of brodozer stuff, can I go ask for a scrap-destined take-off?

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
3/21/19 3:12 p.m.

In reply to barefootskater :

Yes.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
3/21/19 3:46 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

You know, we didn't have a rule clarifying this. Here it is: 

 

(Added 3/14/19): Every entry is required to have a seat belt or harness for the driver. OEM three-point seat belts may be retained. If the OEM belt is not three-point, or if the driver’s seating position has been modified significantly, then a racing harness is required. Racing harnesses must have a minimum of five points, and may be no more than two years old. Older harnesses that have been professionally re-webbed, inspected and re-certified within the previous two years are acceptable.

May I politely challenge the 3 point requirement?  Nhra requires seat belts with zero definition of how many points to 11.50.  At 11.49 sfi harness is required.  I have gone through tech and made many a 100+mph pass with lap belts in a car from the time before the government required cars to have them.  

I have a potential challenge build that predates the seatbelt mandate that has optional factory lap belts and will under no circumstances be modified for a shoulder harness or 5 point.  If it excludes this particular car from competition, I need to know so I don’t have to worry about budget

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
3/21/19 3:50 p.m.

Any reason for the two year rule when FIA belts are usually good for 5 years?

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
3/21/19 4:19 p.m.
Patrick said:
Tom Suddard said:

You know, we didn't have a rule clarifying this. Here it is: 

 

(Added 3/14/19): Every entry is required to have a seat belt or harness for the driver. OEM three-point seat belts may be retained. If the OEM belt is not three-point, or if the driver’s seating position has been modified significantly, then a racing harness is required. Racing harnesses must have a minimum of five points, and may be no more than two years old. Older harnesses that have been professionally re-webbed, inspected and re-certified within the previous two years are acceptable.

May I politely challenge the 3 point requirement?  Nhra requires seat belts with zero definition of how many points to 11.50.  At 11.49 sfi harness is required.  I have gone through tech and made many a 100+mph pass with lap belts in a car from the time before the government required cars to have them.  

I have a potential challenge build that predates the seatbelt mandate that has optional factory lap belts and will under no circumstances be modified for a shoulder harness or 5 point.  If it excludes this particular car from competition, I need to know so I don’t have to worry about budget

Lap belts would greatly simplify things, but we'll adhere to whatever the requirements are.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/21/19 9:45 p.m.

Since we aren’t door to door / wheel to wheel, can there be an allowance for out-of-date harnesses? Like Patrick’s, my Challenge car was originally equipped with lap belts only.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/22/19 12:27 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

So, the NHRA lack of definition means that a 1 point should work. 

Also known as a noose!  cheeky

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/22/19 12:29 p.m.

(I’d be pretty surprised if a lap belt would suffice. GRM has 3 different insurance aspects thawy would need to adhere to- the NHRA track, the auto cross club host, and their own liability insurance). 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/22/19 12:36 p.m.

There's some discussion in the "Rules" thread (link)about the Challenge date changing.  Do we have a definitive answer yet?

Marjorie Suddard
Marjorie Suddard General Manager
3/22/19 1:56 p.m.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

Yes. I replied in that thread—date is Oct. 25-26.

 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/22/19 2:10 p.m.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

Thanks for the clarification.

Marjorie Suddard
Marjorie Suddard General Manager
3/22/19 2:13 p.m.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

Any time—sorry it was needed. Didn’t realize you guys were still asking about the dates.

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
3/22/19 2:18 p.m.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

Just a heads up, I can't get to 2000challenge.com.

Marjorie Suddard
Marjorie Suddard General Manager
3/22/19 2:20 p.m.

Weird. It’s loading fine for me. I will ask web guys to check it.

Margie

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
5/24/19 2:10 p.m.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

What are the guidelines regarding tuning of a challenge car?  

I’d like to try a variety of intakes, carbs, fuel injection,  supercharged, turbo charged. 

It’s all junk I’ve got sitting around.  Do I just settle on something and whatever the cost/ value of the parts is what I put down? Or if  I buy/ rent equipment to test something is that added to the cost?  

I used to test a tune up by running up a marked off hill with a stop watch, so do I add the value of the chalk, stop watch?  What about if I use O2 sensors to help get the mixture right but don’t use them on the actual car?  

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
5/24/19 2:24 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

You price what's on the car. You can rent or buy all the equipment you want to figure out a spec, then price the stuff used on the car at the Challenge. Nothing in your last sentence goes into the budget. 

Example: I bought $200 worth of jigs and fixtures to help with building my car, but they don't go on the car, so they're not in the budget.

Ashyukun (Robert)
Ashyukun (Robert) UberDork
5/24/19 2:31 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

IIRC it should just be what is actually ON the car at the Challenge when you're making your runs. It's been stated before that laptops and the likes used for tuning MS, Wideband sensors, etc. don't have to be in the budget as long as they're NOT in/on the car when it's running the events (or, I suppose, on the Concours...) at the Challenge. Similarly anything external like the chalk, stop watch, and equipment used to work on the car/test- AS LONG AS you (or someone on your team) are the one who is using it. I.e., if you rent/buy a lathe to fabricate a part that's fine but if you have to pay someone else to do it (run the lathe) than it goes into the budget.

I don't remember though what the ruling was for things like paying for dyno time if you were to go that far... 

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
5/24/19 2:40 p.m.

In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :

I’d think dyno time would be the same, Since it’s not on the car during the event it shouldn’t count.  You don’t learn anything on a dyno that a lap top won’t tell you. Oh, maybe bragging numbers, but I’ve got programs that will do a pretty good job of providing those. 

Besides, I’m not sure my personal budget will allow me the cost of bringing it down. I’d  Just like to build it according to the rules.  

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