Dale Jr.'s win last night...

I know most of your folk look down on NASCAR because pushrod's are just as ancient as overhead cams and 900hp out of a 355cid engine isn't impressive, but I thought Dale Jr. winning the nationwide race in his father's Wrangler livery was pretty badass.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/dale-earnhardt-jr-nationwide-victory-big-for-his-fans-070210

I dunno, I heard from serious NASCAR fan friends that the finish looked bogus.

He didn't have the strongest car, but it handled good. He could run down at the bottom all night long, and nobody could pass on the high side.

There is NO WAY auto racing can be fixed. There are too many variables, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose a race on purpose. I doubt there's too many Sprint Cup drivers that don't feel the same way.

I don't look down on the machinery, it's the rest of the NASCAR "show" that irritates me. The cars are pretty cool, engines especially. Old school style v8's that can turn 9000+ rpm and last for 600 miles are pretty cool in my books. I don't think it's fixed, but it's not for lack of trying...

racerfink wrote: He didn't have the strongest car, but it handled good. He could run down at the bottom all night long, and nobody could pass on the high side. There is NO WAY auto racing can be fixed. There are too many variables, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose a race on purpose. I doubt there's too many Sprint Cup drivers that don't feel the same way.

You're kidding, right?

Any of those variables could be changed by the tiniest bit, and bingo! Fixed. Could you eyeball a sub-10 degree change in the spoiler?

Not saying it is, as I don't follow it, but wouldn't be hard.

so Jr. finally found the level of NASCAR where he can win..??

wbjones wrote: so Jr. finally found the level of NASCAR where he can win..??

it's the same level that he dominated for a couple of years before moving up to the Winston Cup.. and he did it in a car with the #3 on the roof and doors.

I was there for the race--not planned, though. I ran into $200X Challenge judge Steven Cole Smith during Brumos 250 practice/testing, and he suggested I watch the Nationwide race with him. We were up in the press box which offers an amazing view of the track. By the way, Steven is a walking encyclopedia of racing--all all of the neat behind-the-scenes stuff. Oh, and pushrods or not, three-wide at something around 200 mph is pretty cool.

(Disclaimer: No, don't freak out, we're not going to start covering NASCAR.)

novaderrik wrote:

wbjones wrote: so Jr. finally found the level of NASCAR where he can win..??

it's the same level that he dominated for a couple of years before moving up to the Winston Cup.. and he did it in a car with the #3 on the roof and doors.

So basiclly it is a level he can win at. I like him but without the last name he would just be one of many good Busch drivers who couldn't quite make it in Cup racing.

novaderrik wrote:

wbjones wrote: so Jr. finally found the level of NASCAR where he can win..??

it's the same level that he dominated for a couple of years before moving up to the Winston Cup.. and he did it in a car with the #3 on the roof and doors.

that was my point.... have you ever heard of the Peter Principle ? he seems like a good example of it....

P71 wrote: I dunno, I heard from serious NASCAR fan friends that the finish looked bogus.

I'm barely even a casual NASCAR fan, and just happened to catch the finish of this race. I don't recall anything that would have led me to that conclusion.

That's awesome

I didn't know he was running that car - or I would have tuned in just to watch that.

I'd like to see Nascar run just one race on dirt each year.

I'd also like to see Nascar run one throwback race each year, using a different time period body. How about mid 70's Monte Carlo - Cutlass-Regal-Malibu-Grand Prix - Matador-Satelitte-Torinos - etc?

Osterkraut wrote:

racerfink wrote: He didn't have the strongest car, but it handled good. He could run down at the bottom all night long, and nobody could pass on the high side. There is NO WAY auto racing can be fixed. There are too many variables, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose a race on purpose. I doubt there's too many Sprint Cup drivers that don't feel the same way.

You're kidding, right? Any of those variables could be changed by the tiniest bit, and bingo! Fixed. Could you eyeball a sub-10 degree change in the spoiler? Not saying it is, as I don't follow it, but wouldn't be hard.

And when you cut a tire, or somebody spins right in front of you, or a valve spring goes bad, or your fuel pick-up isn't picking up that last 1 or 2 gals., or someone bump drafts you a little too hard, or somebody else hit a much better combo of gearing and set-up than you, or your pit crew makes one mistake, or...

Again, you can't "Put the fix in" on Racing.

racerfink wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

racerfink wrote: He didn't have the strongest car, but it handled good. He could run down at the bottom all night long, and nobody could pass on the high side. There is NO WAY auto racing can be fixed. There are too many variables, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose a race on purpose. I doubt there's too many Sprint Cup drivers that don't feel the same way.

You're kidding, right? Any of those variables could be changed by the tiniest bit, and bingo! Fixed. Could you eyeball a sub-10 degree change in the spoiler? Not saying it is, as I don't follow it, but wouldn't be hard.

And when you cut a tire, or somebody spins right in front of you, or a valve spring goes bad, or your fuel pick-up isn't picking up that last 1 or 2 gals., or someone bump drafts you a little too hard, or somebody else hit a much better combo of gearing and set-up than you, or your pit crew makes one mistake, or... Again, you can't "Put the fix in" on Racing.

Obviously those things would put an end to a plan, but it really wouldn't be to hard to fix a race. "Hey, everyone else. Let X Driver win. Or if he crashes, then just go for it". It might be difficult, but its far from impossible.

DirtyBird222 wrote: I know most of your folk look down on NASCAR because pushrod's are just as ancient as overhead cams and 900hp out of a 355cid engine isn't impressive, but I thought Dale Jr. winning the nationwide race in his father's Wrangler livery was pretty badass. http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/dale-earnhardt-jr-nationwide-victory-big-for-his-fans-070210

i dont think people have problems with any of the variables you listed. I think they have a problem with nascars blatant left turn bias.

racerfink wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

racerfink wrote: He didn't have the strongest car, but it handled good. He could run down at the bottom all night long, and nobody could pass on the high side. There is NO WAY auto racing can be fixed. There are too many variables, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to lose a race on purpose. I doubt there's too many Sprint Cup drivers that don't feel the same way.

You're kidding, right? Any of those variables could be changed by the tiniest bit, and bingo! Fixed. Could you eyeball a sub-10 degree change in the spoiler? Not saying it is, as I don't follow it, but wouldn't be hard.

And when you cut a tire, or somebody spins right in front of you, or a valve spring goes bad, or your fuel pick-up isn't picking up that last 1 or 2 gals., or someone bump drafts you a little too hard, or somebody else hit a much better combo of gearing and set-up than you, or your pit crew makes one mistake, or... Again, you can't "Put the fix in" on Racing.

Of course it's not a guaranteed win. Your juiced up racehorse could break it's leg out of the starting gate. It'd just be really easy to fix 99% of NASCAR races. And probably most other motorsports too.

TIGMOTORSPORTS wrote: I'd like to see Nascar run just one race on dirt each year.

ARCA runs two dirt races a year, but for some reason Speed won't give them any TV time.

the Cup race last night was a perfect example of why it would be impossible to rig a race so that a certain person wins- it's really easy for anyone to get shuffled back 10 or 20 positions on a single lap simply because they decided to try to make a pass and didn't get anyone to follow them and push them around the other cars, which leads to the other cars all going around them.

then a tire blows on some random car at the front of the pack or someone lets off the throttle for half a second to avoid someone else and pretty soon you have a 20 car pileup at 200mph.

there were some big name cars that got taken out in the 'big one' last night and the race was won by the guy that stayed out ahead of the carnage, and the top 15 positions were taken by teams that are generally 30th place or lower. i like it when that happens..

In reply to racerfink:

You are correct in that it is impossible to fix a race to make an individual participant win, but you can alter the outcome beyond what would result if the race would be allowed to take its natural course (competition cautions, mysterious "debris" cautions, etc.)

I am not saying that is what happened yesterday. I didn't see the race because I was at a baseball game. Yes, I like stick and ball sports too (ducking for cover).

In reply to GI_Drewsifer:

So, you're saying that all those other teams, that have sponsors to placate, not to mention I can't imagine one single other driver WANTING to lose on purpose, fix races?

Tin foil hat?

racerfink wrote: In reply to GI_Drewsifer: So, you're saying that all those other teams, that have sponsors to placate, not to mention I can't imagine one single other driver WANTING to lose on purpose, fix races? Tin foil hat?

Now you're reading into my statement

I merely said that fixing a race is far from impossible. But as Moparman said, a lot of factors can be played with to change the natural outcome of a race. It might not be easy, but it is possible. Also, you don't have to get every team and driver in on it. If you get the top five drivers who are likely to win and say "Hey, give this one to Racer X, and you'll get a boatload of money, and we'll help you out at Event Y". I didn't see the race, nor do I watch 90% of NASCAR races, so I'm not commenting on anything specific. I'm just saying, its not as hard your making it sound.

GI_Drewsifer wrote:

racerfink wrote: In reply to GI_Drewsifer: So, you're saying that all those other teams, that have sponsors to placate, not to mention I can't imagine one single other driver WANTING to lose on purpose, fix races? Tin foil hat?

Now you're reading into my statement I merely said that fixing a race is far from impossible. But as Moparman said, a lot of factors can be played with to change the natural outcome of a race. It might not be easy, but it is possible. Also, you don't have to get every team and driver in on it. If you get the top five drivers who are likely to win and say "Hey, give this one to Racer X, and you'll get a boatload of money, and we'll help you out at Event Y". I didn't see the race, nor do I watch 90% of NASCAR races, so I'm not commenting on anything specific. I'm just saying, its not as hard your making it sound.

What I was trying to say was that NASCAR plays with the outcome to make racing close, but I do not think looks to benefit particular drivers.

at the restrictor plate races it really would be rather simple to "fix" a race ....( as the conspiracy theorist have said for as long as I can remember .... all you have to do is give the driver you want to win a slightly larger restrictor plate... then if they stay out of trouble they are able to actually drive away from the pack on the last lap....

hey wait a moment... that's exactly what Jr was able to do when he won his Cup races at Daytona and Talladaga...

So, I guess NASCAR wanted RCR to win both races this weekend.

who knows... all I'm doing is stirring the pot...