eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
10/9/17 1:29 p.m.

I've done camber and toe alignments on cars with strut type suspensions multiple times, and am used to that, but the challenge S10 is the first car I'll be aligning with a double A arm suspension.  My plan is to make turn plates out of cardboard with grease between them (or go big and get a few pieces of flat sheet metal at the hardware store for turn plates).  Will probably cut down a piece of steel quare tubing so it fits just inside the rim of the wheels.  Beyond that, I have a digital angle finder, and the usual measurement tools (including a couple of adjustable curtain rods for toe measurement).  For those who've done this before does this sound right:

  1. Get car on the turn plates, then bounce the suspension a few times to settle it.
  2. Measure Camber on both wheels.
  3. Install shims at on front and rear bolts of the upper arm to get camber in spec for both wheels
  4. Turn wheel inward 20 degress (measure using the change in angle of the turn plates) and measure camber
  5. Turn wheel outward 20 degress and measure camber.
  6. Take the difference between the two measurements and multiply by 1.5 to get caster
  7. Remove shims on the rear of the upper arm if I have too much positive caster(or add them to the front), or remove them from the front if I don't have enough positive caster (or add them to the rear).
  8. Do steps 4-7 for the other front wheel.
  9. Remeasure camber, and and adjust a bit if needed
  10. Measure and set toe
  11. Check all measurements again and iterate if need be.

Does that appear to be right for getting me close enough to drive the car without being unsafe and causing too much uneven wear on the tires?  I understand since all three values tend to affect each other more than they would in a strut suspension, I may need to repeat a few times to get it all in spec, since I don't have an alignment rack and computer telling me what to do.

Also, any suggestions for alignment settings for an S10 that will mostly see street duty, but needs to handle at least okay at the challenge?

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/9/17 2:00 p.m.

I've heard that cheap vinyl floor tiles at the big box stores can be excellent for turn plates. Like $1 each cheap.

No comment on aligning an s10 though, I've never done it.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Dork
10/9/17 2:17 p.m.

Your method sounds good, don't see any issues there. As for alignments specs, the S10 shares components with the 78-88 G-body, so you could look up performance alignments for G-bodies and get to a good starting point.

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
10/9/17 7:35 p.m.

Thanks, I’ll have to hit up the hardware store for some vinyl tiles, and I’ll check on G body alignment settings.

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
10/9/17 9:22 p.m.

That method sounds good, just be prepared for how much of a giant PITA it is in reality. Even doing them on an alignment rack sucks. Finding the right combo of caster and camber is most of the hassle, the rest of it is just access problems. If your truck is taken apart right now, i would tack weld the upper control arm bolts to the frame, because it really sucks when they strip their splines and you have to hold them from both sides to tighten them. Also, if your shims have holes in them i highly recommend running a zip tie through each shim 'pack' to ease the inevitable hassle of them falling sideways or part way out or all the way out. You can also run the zip tie around the upper control arm mount shaft itself so that it's impossible for the shim pack to fall all the way out on the road if it comes loose. And in case it wasn't implied, tighten the everloving E36 M3 out of those bolts once you put the shims in. 

I have a ZQ8 s10 that i did with about +5.5 caster and -1 camber and 0 toe. I want to do more camber  and a little toe-out but i'm going to get some extended lower ball joints before realigning. 

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
10/10/17 8:02 a.m.

In reply to Vigo :

Vigo, so the upper control arm bolts are just pressed in?  There's enough rust there to be removed, and enough assembled around them that I may not be able to weld them, but I'll see if I can before starting.  I haven't put the fender liners on yet, so access to the nuts to make adjustments will at least be easy.  I know the alignemnt will be a touch off without the fender liners and battery in the car, but I'd rather have the access versus being exact.  I've seen how crappy of a job some techs do with alignments, so I'm not worried about being ultra high precision, just safe and no excessive wear on the tires. 

Does the +5.5 caster cause a very strong return to center feeling for the steering?  That seems kind of high to me, but I still haven't done enough research.  Since the challenge has the drag event, I'm inclined to get it as close to 0 toe as possible, so caster and camber are the two big variables.

pushrod36
pushrod36 Reader
10/10/17 8:19 a.m.

+5.5 caster will give you a strong return to center feeling, but more importantly it will act as a bandaid against a poor camber curve.

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
10/14/17 4:31 p.m.

I spent the last several hours trying to get the S10 aligned, and am pretty much out of time and out of shims and need to move on.  I used some tubular upper arms designed for circle track cars, and their geometry must be a little weird.  I had to put a ton more shims on the rear than on the front - on the passenger side there are no shims on the front of the control arm.

Here's my final numbers for now.  I'm hoping this will be good enough for the challenge, assuming the car makes it, and then maybe when I get home, I can get a professional alignment, or get some turn plates and a caster camber gauge:

Driver's side:

Camber:  -0.4 degreres

Caster:  4.05 degrees

Passenger side:

Camber: -0.9 degrees

Caster:  3.9 degrees

Toe:  0

I know the half degree difference in camber isn't that great, and I really should have more caster on the passenger side than on the driver's side, but what is everyone's opinion?  Will this destroy tires in short order, or can it go a few thousand miles safely and without trashing a set of front tires?

BTW - The tiles worked okay as budget turn plates, but because I had to settle the car after putting it down on them, they shifted, so I needed to find a baseline value other than zero to measure with my protractor when turning the steering wheel 20 degrees.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
10/14/17 4:33 p.m.

I did that once. Armstrong. Be on the wrong side.

eastsidemav
eastsidemav SuperDork
10/14/17 4:51 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

I did that once. Armstrong. Be on the wrong side.

What, have caster be opposite of where it should be?

Edit:  At least the truck has power steeering

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
10/14/17 5:18 p.m.

After reading your post if you are absolutely right. I ran out of shims on the front bolt not the rear

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/15/17 6:37 a.m.

Looks to me like you did great!

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
10/15/17 8:19 a.m.

Another thing about caster that gets mentioned less is the steering will 'self countersteer' to a greater extent when you're sliding the back around. Not a good term but if you've ever seen a drifter just kind of 'throw' the steering in the other direction while transitioning and then the steering turns itself to keep going the direction it was originally going while the body behind it rotates, that's a benefit to highly positive caster. Heck, i can remember a certain CJ7 that, if it had done that, probably wouldn't have been rolled over by some kid who was unintentionally oversteering it. cool

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
ofbpQZ5wMOuTjROQhTF4DFqw5YUqsKBPDggoiXhCWpH6nlrzqHzkpr4jfVSnjAA3