nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand UberDork
2/18/21 5:13 p.m.

So NASA and many series use Power/Weight (Technically it's usually Lb/HP) to normalize classing.  

NASA controls this using a certified Dyno report and weight verificaiton at the track scales to determine your compliance.  

Many spec classes require you to run a specific data analysis system to validate vehicle performance.

It seems like it should be possible to roll your own electronic telltale that validates that your performance is consistent with a vehicle of say 20:1 lb/hp, or 18 or whatever.   

It seems that you could develop something that you tell what the lb/hp is and that would record longitudinal acceleration to ensure that you are not exceeding your theoretical limit.

How could you do this?  An APP for a phone/tablet?  A simple Arduino circuit of some kind?  Does some low cost off the shelf system already have this functionality?  GPS based or Accelerometer?

Long term this will play into a project I have planned to potentially develop an Open Source W2W car based on any 100-120HP FWD drivetrain (Think SRF but slower and cheaper).   But that's for later and a different thread.  

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
2/18/21 5:19 p.m.

There are already phone based dyno apps that can do this, like dragy.

stafford1500
stafford1500 GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/19/21 8:09 a.m.

It is possible to use basic data to get a good estimate of power applied to the ground and compared that to dyno data. I did this as an attempt to show others the aero impact and the mechanical losses. You can also use this mehod to estimate the effect of aero/mechanical grip using lateral acceleration.

You need longitudinal acceleration and vehicle mass to get thrust (F=ma), which can be converted to power since you should also have speed. Watch your units. This is mostly covered in one of the articles/sidebars I worked with the magazine about the tire size impacts on MPG.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/can-sticky-tires-affect-straight-line-speed/

The basics are simple. The details, as always, are the tricky bits. Consistency of conditions will be the biggest challenge. Surface friction, slope of the track section you are testing on, ambient conditions varying power/drag/downforce levels, tire grip (temperature related). These things are all harder to set evenly, but a gross overview of the results is what groups like NASA are trying to control. The above method will get you close, and for a specific project/platform you can use other dedicated information to try and adjust for the variables listed above (and many others).

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
2/19/21 8:56 a.m.

WR = 1/2*density*drag coeff*area*velocity^2*

RR=rollingdragcoeff*normal force

Accel=(engine power - (WR + RR)*Velocity)/(mass*velocity)

 

All those you should be able to get values for.  They can change by a significant amount based on conditions as pointed out above.  And then you factor in track slope and it can get all kinds of messy.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/19/21 10:01 a.m.

this is another thing electric cars fix (runs for cover). 

But seriously, I'm 99% sure the serious carts at the serious indoor carting place near me use electric motors that are programmed to have a max acceleration rate. So fat drivers and skinny drivers accelerate the same. 

Maybe what NASA needs to do it to make everyone run a GPS throttle that does the same thing. 

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