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1SlowVW
1SlowVW Reader
2/8/19 1:29 p.m.
edizzle89 said:

I think people have put a GM T5 behind a LS before. Yes they aren't strong but in something light like a TR4 I'd think it would atleast get you through the challenge.

Or an nv3500 our of a 4.3 s10. If you’re not boosted the trans should survive in a light car.

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/8/19 1:36 p.m.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

That trans was also a rare option behind the 4.8

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/8/19 1:39 p.m.

I have questions for the LSers.

Is most of the mixing and matching of parts to help a swap fit or for performance?

I know there's no replacement for displacement but the 5.3s seem to be most common. Given a factory sealed 5.3 of a generic year how much HP/TQ are you looking at once tuned? 

Is it worth it seeking out the special all Aluminum 6.0 and if so how much HP/TQ tuned like the 5.3 above?

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/8/19 1:47 p.m.

Just a tune won't gain you much but throw a cam, valvesprings and headers at a 5.3 can yield almost 100hp. 

Here's a nice stackup of those changes on a 5.3 and 6.2 https://www.powerperformancenews.com/tech/killer-cam-combos-cam-only-5-3l-vs-ls3/

1SlowVW
1SlowVW Reader
2/8/19 2:01 p.m.
RacetruckRon said:

In reply to 1SlowVW :

That trans was also a rare option behind the 4.8

Yes, you are correct but they do seem very rare.

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/8/19 2:43 p.m.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

The only downside to the nv3500 is being a truck trans they shift like a truck trans, but I agree would do pretty well in a light car.

 

In reply to Stampie :

I can speak for hp #'s after being tuned but 5.3's can be had for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of even an iron block 6.0, and the 5.3's where more common so more available too. obviously the extra displacement is always going to be a benefit but on a budget the 5.3 will do good enough with identical mods.

 

As for mismatching of parts it can go either way whether it's for ease of swap/looks vs. performance. Sometimes you see LS swapped cars for sale on CL that have holes cut in the hood for the truck intake and alternator bracket to hang out of, where a car intake and lower alt mount would have prevented it but obliviously would cost more to do. But it has been proven the the truck intakes flow better then some of the lower-scale car intakes but aren't as aesthetically pleasing. of course their are people who have 'smoothed' truck intakes and they look pretty good.

 

 

There's also several different water pumps to get you outlet's in different locations which can help for coolant hose routing. It really depends on how far you want to go into it. For the most part accessory spacing is one of the biggest issues, the rest is just how well you can make it fit with the rest of the car.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/8/19 2:56 p.m.
RacetruckRon said:

Just a tune won't gain you much but throw a cam, valvesprings and headers at a 5.3 can yield almost 100hp. 

Here's a nice stackup of those changes on a 5.3 and 6.2 https://www.powerperformancenews.com/tech/killer-cam-combos-cam-only-5-3l-vs-ls3/

My track Miata was originally built with a modified 5.3 - cam, LS6 heads, etc. The 5.7 LS1 that was in my MG was considerably stronger by the seat of the pants, which was embarassing. I changed out the 5.3 for a 6.2 that was stock other than a mild ASA cam and picked up 15 mph on the back straight of High Plains Raceway. Also something like 110 hp at the wheels.

I would rather run a stock 5.7 than a modified 5.3 based on this experience.

For accessory drives, go to media.gm.com. That site has pretty pictures of every LS variant for each production year from the same angle, and you can compare the accessory drives that were used in different applications. Very useful. Be aware that there are three belt locations in the early motors - far from the block (truck), medium (F-body), close to the block (Corvette). You'll need to match all the accessories and the crank pulley to each other.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
2/8/19 6:50 p.m.

We're doing a supercharged LS 6.0 swap on a '68 Beaumont (Chevelle) at work right now.

It's just swapping Chevy parts for Chevy parts so the aftermarket makes it a bit of a no brainer but I can give you a little insight so far.

The adjustable motor mounts from Dirty Dingo are really nice to work with.

Holley makes a rear-sump pan that is nice and compact.

Hooker Blackheart headers are a nice tight fit.

We're using a Wegner front drive setup that packages everything pretty tightly.

Everything else is pretty application-specific.

You can find a lot of off-the-shelf GM stuff to make the swap work by looking through the owners manuals for the crate motors on the GM Performance website, they have part numbers for sensors, lines and some of the misc parts you might end up needing.

buzzboy
buzzboy HalfDork
2/8/19 9:30 p.m.

If it's a race car why not go for a Muncie or Saginaw trans? Pretty decent shifting transmission and decently strong. There's one in a Lemons e36, maybe on here. IIRC they bolt up except one extra bolt hole on the GenIII. 

Furious_E
Furious_E UltraDork
2/9/19 10:18 a.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman :

How's your swap coming along?

Run_Away
Run_Away Dork
2/9/19 10:46 a.m.

Following with interest. I have two vehicles in my fleet that I'd love to LS swap ('69 C10 and '98 K1500).

 

I've been monitoring the insurance auctions locally and figure I should be able to buy an ambulance or 3/4 ton full size van for $600-$800 CAD. I'm targeting those because a) 99% of the trucks around here are 4WD and the C10 is 2WD b) I want a 4L80 rather than a 4L60. I'm envisioning a sloppy style turbo setup in the C10.

 

The other option for swaps is the local U-pull yard. I've heard of a few L33s being found there, but it's otherwise all iron block truck motors. If you're planning on doing a cam swap anyways, better to buy an AFM motor and spend $225 on a delete kit or stick with the older 5.3s? Are all AFM engines gen 4? I suppose if I was looking for boost the gen 4 would be the winner, always.

If I had a full day at the junkyard I suppose I could disassemble to engines and swap around internals to "build" the best combo of internals with the available engines and walk out only paying for $300 CAD for single "complete" engine.

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/11/19 8:11 a.m.

In reply to Run_Away :

if you plan on doing a cam swap then there's no reason not to get a AFM engine as you'll be eliminating all the parts that cause problems. And I think all AFM engines are gen 4, but i could be wrong on that

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
2/11/19 8:52 a.m.

In reply to edizzle89 :

About those LS parts, I sent you PM, it go bounced back, and then I sent an email.  ECM, maybe wiring harness?

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
2/11/19 10:32 a.m.

In reply to Furious_E :

My swap has been going very slow. I’ve been dealing with some lower back issues and I’m trying to keep my wife happy by spending time with her.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/2/19 2:54 p.m.

Will an LS4 intake manifold bolt up to a 5.3?

 

Main objective here is lowering the overall height of the engine.  I'm pretty certain it won't make as much hp as an LS1, but super low price for the LS4, compared to the LS1.

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/2/19 3:21 p.m.

It will, provided you get the throttle body with it.  The issue is bottleneck caused by the need to clear the oil sending unit with the backward intake on fwd, so they molded the plastic around it and used a smaller throttle body.  I believe i threw one out last year.  I used the fuel rails on my ls1 intake to get a passenger side inlet.  The ls4 is still a 303hp 5.3 so the intake is capable of that.  I’ll check my stuff to see if I still have it or not

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/2/19 3:40 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

Thanks for the info. If you have one stashed, that would be great. I'm finding them for about one third the price of LS1/LS6

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
3/2/19 5:54 p.m.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

Do you realize that the LS4 intake reverses the intake? The throttle body is at the torque convertor end of the engine. The diameter is also the smallest of all the LS variants.

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
3/2/19 6:10 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk :

And the area behind the throttle body is necked down even smaller to clear the oil pressure sensor. Though with the ports and bolts being symmetrical as far as i know. And i also don't know of any water passages or anything to worry about. I don't see why you couldn't put an LS4 manifold on with the throttle at the front. Several reasons why you might not want to though.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
3/2/19 6:49 p.m.

In reply to Daylan C :

It can be reversed on the engine?

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/2/19 6:51 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk :

Yes. I know the stock orientation of the intake and that it is the most restrictive. Hence the preface by stating #1 goal was reducing overall height of the engine, Not ultimate horsepower. Because challenge budget.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/2/19 6:54 p.m.

In reply to Daylan C :

Yes. Mount in the typical rwd orientation.

 

New question: will the electronic throttle pedal from a truck LS operate the LS4 throttle body? Or will I need the LS4 pedal too?

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/2/19 7:12 p.m.
DeadSkunk said:

In reply to Daylan C :

It can be reversed on the engine?

Yes.  The ls6 intake is a common swap in the ls4 crowd, i believe they move the oil sensor and plug the hole in the valley cover and mount it backwards. They’re reversible.  The problem with modding the ls4 in the stock fwd application is that the transmission is marginal at stock power levels.  I know a guy that did a turbo ls4 monte carlo and basically had to replace the trans if he went to the track.  11’s on slicks, but it was a grenade with the pin pulled 

 

the general rule for the e-throttles is you need to keep the throttle body, pedal, and tac module as a set because they don’t play well together across platforms.  I’d probably machine an adapter to use the truck one since you have that stuff already.

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/2/19 7:23 p.m.

Just checked, i tossed the ls4 intake.  I have 4 gen3 truck intakes, a gen4 rectangle port truck intake, and a gen3 aluminum professional products intake.  

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/2/19 7:57 p.m.

Do you have plans for that aluminum one? is it valuable, or challenge budget car friendly? 

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