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STM317
STM317 Dork
4/12/17 1:56 p.m.

In reply to Driven5:

Seems like this thing is really geared for the 1/4 mile though. Regular Hellcats get a 2.62 rear gear while the Demon gets 3.09s. A gear change would probably be required to stretch it's legs properly over a full mile.

I'm not super familiar with standing mile events, but if this thing can trap almost 150mph in the 1/4, would they not insist on a cage?

Plenty of Regular Hellcats already doing standing mile stuff with big power. It might be cheaper to go that route than buying the super limited Demon and making the necessary changes.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/12/17 2:07 p.m.

I don't think the challengers are built on the E class frame anymore. I think that's some old news.

And the guy who wonders why it weighs more than his 78 pickup...well it's 2017. Most cars weigh more than your pickup. All the safety and tech advancements we've made in the 40 years since your truck was made actually has mass so it adds weight.

This car is awesome and has no purpose besides going fast in a straight line. Which makes it special and cool. There's no purpose and having these 230mph street legal hyper cars but I don't see y'all complaining. I swear no matter what's made it'll be picked apart by someone.

Cotton
Cotton UberDork
4/12/17 2:10 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
Joe Gearin wrote: What this car really is, is a re-incarnation of the 1963 Max-Wedge Polara. It's not intended as a daily driver--- it's an over the top crazy machine.
NB: I got to drive one of these. Actually, I was told that it was going to be my job to tune the car, including some WOT blasts on the street. With that in mind: The owner's manual for said car has a note that full throttle must not be used for more than 15 seconds at a time between cooldowns. And never meet your heroes. That car felt boringly slow

Eh, I've bought a lot of my hero cars and am rarely disappointed. For me it's all about the experience and having realistic expectations.

Driven5
Driven5 Dork
4/12/17 2:15 p.m.

In reply to STM317:

You may very well be right. Maybe the Demon won't end up being that much of an advantage at any venue it isn't already outright pre-banned from participating at...Although that shouldn't stop owners from going out to non-competition drag events and experiencing their one pass. Regardless, I still don't see this as any different than something like the Bugatti Veyron SS, which was single-purposely built to have the highest production car top speed...Even if there is no standard sanctioned venue available to legitimately recreate said World Record top speed. So it's insanely more expensive, but no more able to be used for its developed purpose. Sure the Veyron may ride and handle pretty well too, but has no luggage space to speak of and no option for rear seat passengers, so I'd call it a bit of a toss up on the 'other capabilities' front.

.

yupididit wrote: I don't think the challengers are built on the E class frame anymore. I think that's some old news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LX_platform

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/17 2:22 p.m.

Y'all forget that the NHRA isn't the only sanctioning body in this country. NSCA, NMCA, NMRA, IHRA, and even AAA (yeah, that AAA) all sanction different tracks and series, not to mention "outlaw" tracks, and that's just drag racing. The Demon would also be a beast in 1/2 mile, 1-mile, and LSR events (face it, a 3.09 gear is pretty tame, and it has more than 3 forward gears), and most of them don't have nearly the same rules for cages, either.

I actually love how hilarious Dodge's product line is. They have the world's first hybrid minivan (I mean come on Toyota and Honda, WTF?!?) on one end and this beast on the other!

stroker
stroker SuperDork
4/12/17 2:38 p.m.
4cylndrfury wrote:
stroker wrote: I want that motor in a Charger or a 300C. Set up for left/right turns.
QFT - The demon Powerplant in a 300C suddenly becomes direct competition for for the CTS-V

Apparently Hellcat Chargers are available...

Autoweak

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/12/17 2:58 p.m.
Driven5 wrote: In reply to STM317: You may very well be right...Although I still don't see this as any different than something like the (insanely more expensive) Bugatti Veyron, which was single-purposely built for top speed...Even if there is no standard sanctioned venue available to legitimately recreate said World Record top speed. Sure the Veyron can handle pretty well too, but has no luggage space to speak of and no option for rear seat, so I'd call them pretty even on the 'other capabilities' front. .
yupididit wrote: I don't think the challengers are built on the E class frame anymore. I think that's some old news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LX_platform

So how much of the LY platform is actually Mercedes after the changes and years?

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
4/12/17 4:10 p.m.
STM317 wrote: In reply to xflowgolf: I guess what I'm saying is, that they made lots of compromises to make a car really good at doing one thing. Except, it's not legal for it to do that one thing. So what are you left with?

I think buyers are going to be split between the cars and coffee crowd who wants one for a status symbol, and people who immediately take it to their chassis builder to get the required cage and safety gear welded in. The Demon mostly seems like a Drag Pack Challenger with much higher production numbers that has been made street legal. Which may be the first time adding smog equipment to a car has made it MORE impressive.

And I'd also love to be a fly on the wall when the SCCA tries to figure out how to classify this for autocross.

chandlerGTi
chandlerGTi UberDork
4/12/17 7:40 p.m.
yupididit wrote:
Driven5 wrote: In reply to STM317: You may very well be right...Although I still don't see this as any different than something like the (insanely more expensive) Bugatti Veyron, which was single-purposely built for top speed...Even if there is no standard sanctioned venue available to legitimately recreate said World Record top speed. Sure the Veyron can handle pretty well too, but has no luggage space to speak of and no option for rear seat, so I'd call them pretty even on the 'other capabilities' front. .
yupididit wrote: I don't think the challengers are built on the E class frame anymore. I think that's some old news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LX_platform
So how much of the LY platform is actually Mercedes after the changes and years?

None, but it gets trotted out as fact. I don't understand the hate over an "outdated" chassis, if we don't design a new chassis every couple years we fail?

Grizz
Grizz UltraDork
4/12/17 8:20 p.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

I've noticed that it only happens with Chrysler. Literally the only company that people bitch about when they do something ridiculous.

Which is even more annoying because out of all of the companies in the US Chrysler has the longest and most varied history of doing absolutely stupid things for fun and maybe profit.

Fast as hell cars that you can't even tell unless you notice the little D500 badge? Grand.

Road legal drag cars in the 60s? Sure.

Street Hemi in a truck in the 60s? Neat.

Giant wings. Now.

Telling the EPA to pound sand by making your fast car a truck? Approved.

Hey these turbo things are cool, lets throw them in everything.

Let's make a sports car.

Let's race neons.

Let's throw one of those turbo things in a neon.

How much power can we get out of one of those neons?

Let's make our sports car slightly easier to drive.

Let's make a truck a sports car.

Let's make our sports car even faster.

Let's put that turbo neon motor in this ugly ass pt cruiser.

Hey we need a better sedan.

Let's throw a big ass motor in our new sedan.

Let's throw that turbo neon motor in that ugly ass neon replacement.

Let's throw that big ass sedan motor in a jeep.

Let's put a blower on our big ass motor.

No I mean really go crazy with it.

707? I guess that's alright for now.

Let's throw our big ass motor in a full size three row SUV.

Let's make a drag car.

No I meant a DRAG car.

stroker
stroker SuperDork
4/12/17 9:38 p.m.

In reply to Grizz:

You forgot Vipers.

Grizz
Grizz UltraDork
4/12/17 10:05 p.m.

In reply to stroker:

That was the sports car.

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
4/12/17 10:14 p.m.
Grizz wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: I've noticed that it only happens with Chrysler. Literally the only company that people bitch about when they do something ridiculous. Which is even more annoying because out of all of the companies in the US Chrysler has the longest and most varied history of doing absolutely stupid things for fun and maybe profit. Fast as hell cars that you can't even tell unless you notice the little D500 badge? Grand. Road legal drag cars in the 60s? Sure. Street Hemi in a truck in the 60s? Neat. Giant wings. Now. Telling the EPA to pound sand by making your fast car a truck? Approved. Hey these turbo things are cool, lets throw them in everything. Let's make a sports car. Let's race neons. Let's throw one of those turbo things in a neon. How much power can we get out of one of those neons? Let's make our sports car slightly easier to drive. Let's make a truck a sports car. Let's make our sports car even faster. Let's put that turbo neon motor in this ugly ass pt cruiser. Hey we need a better sedan. Let's throw a big ass motor in our new sedan. Let's throw that turbo neon motor in that ugly ass neon replacement. Let's throw that big ass sedan motor in a jeep. Let's put a blower on our big ass motor. No I mean really go crazy with it. 707? I guess that's alright for now. Let's throw our big ass motor in a full size three row SUV. Let's make a drag car. No I meant a DRAG car.

Exactly!! The last time the Demon came up I took a break from the board for a short time. I didn't know how to compute "motorsports" with the general consensus that the Prius is great and a (specifics not known at the time) 800+ HP beast was stupid.
But your right, it's just Dodge hate. Nobody complains when Ferrari makes a stupid fast car, but when a company makes one at 1/3 the price, it's dumb.
I'll venture to say, if it weren't for Dodge making things like the GLH, Neon, SRTs, and Vipers, would the other companies have upped their games to the extent they have? I'm sure the Viper was a prime benchmark for the C7.

ztnedman1
ztnedman1 New Reader
4/12/17 10:27 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: Cool car, not my type, but most powerful production V8? I think Koenigsegg would like to have a word with them...

I don't think Koenigsegg has even made 300 cars in its 23 years let alone 3300. Not sure i would call that "production".

Edit: According to Wikipedia they have only made 214 including prototypes.

loosecannon
loosecannon HalfDork
4/12/17 10:49 p.m.

I don't know which is more unbelievable: That Dodge built the car or that car guys are criticizing it

Kreb
Kreb GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/13/17 12:30 a.m.
loosecannon wrote: I don't know which is more unbelievable: That Dodge built the car or that car guys are criticizing it

You can be really into sports, yet still think that body-builders look like idiots.

loosecannon
loosecannon HalfDork
4/13/17 5:59 a.m.
Kreb wrote:
loosecannon wrote: I don't know which is more unbelievable: That Dodge built the car or that car guys are criticizing it
You can be really into sports, yet still think that body-builders look like idiots.

But this is more like being into body building but criticizing the Mr. Universe for his poor juggling skills

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UltimaDork
4/13/17 7:21 a.m.

The fact that we can have threads supporting both the Prius and the Demon on the same board is pretty cool, even if there are groups that support one over the other. Passionately.

rslifkin
rslifkin Dork
4/13/17 7:42 a.m.
chandlerGTi wrote:
yupididit wrote:
Driven5 wrote: In reply to STM317: You may very well be right...Although I still don't see this as any different than something like the (insanely more expensive) Bugatti Veyron, which was single-purposely built for top speed...Even if there is no standard sanctioned venue available to legitimately recreate said World Record top speed. Sure the Veyron can handle pretty well too, but has no luggage space to speak of and no option for rear seat, so I'd call them pretty even on the 'other capabilities' front. .
yupididit wrote: I don't think the challengers are built on the E class frame anymore. I think that's some old news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LX_platform
So how much of the LY platform is actually Mercedes after the changes and years?
None, but it gets trotted out as fact. I don't understand the hate over an "outdated" chassis, if we don't design a new chassis every couple years we fail?

The "outdated" bit isn't necessarily the age of the chassis, it's the bulk / weight. Chevy realized that the 5th gen Camaro was too portly, so they switched the 6th gen to a new chassis to trim some weight and get it more in line with the Mustang. Dodge continues to bill the Challenger as a competitor to those 2, but it continues to be a lot heavier.

Quite literally, a Hellcat weighs more than Chrysler's biggest, heaviest SUV did just over 20 years ago before the Durango came out (and even the early Durango is less than 100 lbs heavier than a Hellcat). That's pretty sad.

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
4/13/17 8:21 a.m.

I've heard on more than one occasion that FCA says the challenger is NOT a competitor to the mustang and camaro. It's considerably larger.

Chadeux
Chadeux Dork
4/13/17 8:28 a.m.

I think the thing with the Demon, is that while people say "oh you can't really turn an S550 GT into a GT350 because it's about the feel" I'm pretty sure all the matters on the Demon is it's ET. In that case, I wonder how close you could get just by slapping a turbo and drag radials on a 5.7 R/T. The 5 speed auto would probably be the weak point there, so MS3 and a stronger trans of some sort might be required.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/13/17 8:41 a.m.

You forget that to some, a car is not merely a way to get from point A to point B, it IS the point.

edizzle89
edizzle89 Dork
4/13/17 8:45 a.m.
Kreb wrote:
loosecannon wrote: I don't know which is more unbelievable: That Dodge built the car or that car guys are criticizing it
You can be really into sports, yet still think that body-builders look like idiots.

yea but when that idiot looking body-builder is the fastest guy in the 400m dash...

Kreb
Kreb GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/13/17 9:10 a.m.

We're not obligated to like anything. Look at the polarizing views on the new Civic Si. I've just never been into bigger is better, whether it's the size of your house, your girlfriends bust, or the burger you eat. Quality over quantity and all that.

If my neighbor showed up with a Hellcat, I wouldn't think any worse of him, I'd try and hit him up for a ride, and I'd tell all my car-guy friends about it. But if I had $80k or whatever it is one of them goes for to spend on a car, it'd be around the 100th car on my list.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
4/13/17 9:37 a.m.

For the record, A few years ago I autocrossed Challenger at an event put on by BFG--- I think it was the 392 model. Although the car was big and heavy, it was far easier to see out of than a Mustang or Camaro. It also went through the cones far better than I'd expect such a large machine to be able to. It was actually a total hoot. If you aren't concerned with PAX, or shaving a couple 1/100ths off your autocross times---- the Challengers can be a lot of fun. We had instructors in the cars with us (to protect journalists from .....well being journalists) and at the end of the run, mine was giggling and he gave me a high-five. What's not to like?

They had a few WRX's and GTI's there for us to drive as well. The Challenger was more fun on the autocross course than either. (even though the times may not have been better)

The take-home message for me was, that although the Challenger is a damn big car, it's also composed, comfortable, easy to live with, and a lot of fun. Most folks (myself included) think it's pretty good looking too. The subsequent Challenger models I've driven have re-inforced my opinion. Now I've never driven a Hellcat---- but I'd sure like to! I can't imagine it not being fun. The Demon? Well it's just ridiculous. Most will be driven directly into heated garages, and appear at Barrett-Jackson in 15 years.

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