Does your dislike of BrandX keep you from possibly getting a good car?

Tom1200 said:

z31maniac said:

To expand on this, when I say afford to maintain, I mean pay someone else. I've done engine swaps and all that jazz and still can do it, I just don't want to anymore. I don't enjoy spending my weekends on my back on the garage floor anymore. I'd rather pay the premium to drop it off with someone I know is a pro, and pick it up later.......sans back aches, busted knuckles, etc. 

This all day long....................................I only ever worked on cars because it made racing affordable.

I still work on the Datsun 1200 race car because it's so stupidly simple and most jobs I can do quicker than loading it up taking it to the shop and bringing it home again.

I'm to the point in life were time is more important than money (how the heck did that happen?) 

but if i stop working on my cars I no longer have excuses to buy new tools... (i say this as I'm about to drop my track car off at the shop in about 20 minutes)

In reply to stan :

Do you want to learn to hate just one brand or do you want to expand your hate to include lots of brands?

Example: I just learned to hate my Ford Windstar minivan a lot more after finding out that you have to jack up the car and remove the front right tire and reach up from underneath with only one hand to release the tension on the fan belt tension pulley.  That was too hard so I took it into the shop and paid $300 to have someone else replace the squeaky tension pulley. 

Tom1200 said:

z31maniac said:

To expand on this, when I say afford to maintain, I mean pay someone else. I've done engine swaps and all that jazz and still can do it, I just don't want to anymore. I don't enjoy spending my weekends on my back on the garage floor anymore. I'd rather pay the premium to drop it off with someone I know is a pro, and pick it up later.......sans back aches, busted knuckles, etc. 

This all day long....................................I only ever worked on cars because it made racing affordable.

I still work on the Datsun 1200 race car because it's so stupidly simple and most jobs I can do quicker than loading it up taking it to the shop and bringing it home again.

I'm to the point in life were time is more important than money (how the heck did that happen?) 

I earned my badge years ago. Swapped an S52 (also converted to OBD-I at the time since that was the best tuning option in 2008), into my E30............in a gravel driveway........in the Oklahoma summer heat. 

In reply to z31maniac :

I'd rather deal our 110 degree days than the oppressive humidity you probably get.

VolvoHeretic said:

In reply to stan :

Do you want to learn to hate just one brand or do you want to expand your hate to include lots of brands?

Example: I just learned to hate my Ford Windstar minivan a lot more after finding out that you have to jack up the car and remove the front right tire and reach up from underneath with only one hand to release the tension on the fan belt tension pulley.  That was too hard so I took it into the shop and paid $300 to have someone else replace the squeaky tension pulley. 

See, this is why I don't mind living where cars rust audibly.  Any time there's a car that's a pain, just wait five or so more years and they all disappear.  I haven't seen a Windstar in at least a decade.

Have fun replacing the IMRC rod clips, too.  A coworker had one and he waited for the head gaskets to start leaking before he fixed the IMRCs, as at that point he could justify pulling the intake manifold to do the clips the easy way.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Windstars and rust? Remember they had sort of a C-channel solid rear axle where the C was sort of like a trough which would hold salty water until it rusted through?

I think it was a recall item.

I am a GM hater after owning a 72 Vega that they repeatedly lied to me about when I started having trouble with it.  A 1985 Olds 98 didn't help things but compared to a 1991 Lincoln Continental that followed it, it was downright reliable.  After all the trouble I am having rebuilding my son's 3.8 Hyundai engine, I'll never own a Hyundai/Kia.  I started out on VWs, but am scared to buy one now with all I've heard.  We had great luck with 3 Nissans, but that was before they started sucking.  We now have had 3 Toyotas that have been great, but even the Toyota image isn't what it once was.  That is what I am looking at to replace my 99 4Runner.  I'm about to change my mind about selling it.   

spitfirebill said:

I am a GM hater after owning a 72 Vega that they repeatedly lied to me about when I started having trouble with it.

My mom had a '71 vega brand new. Her stories about that thing are hilariously bad. Living in Florida and later NC it had rusted back into the earth by '77. Could you imagine that today? 7 years rusted out in a non salty environment?!

buzzboy said

My mom had a '71 vega brand new. Her stories about that thing are hilariously bad. Living in Florida and later NC it had rusted back into the earth by '77. Could you imagine that today? 7 years rusted out in a non salty environment?!

I was reminded more recently by 3 year old Mazdas with no rear quarters.

Toyota. How do they do it? How do they make cars that are supposedly reliable (not my experience) so perfectly horrible to drive? I've owned two and hated them. My son recently bought a 23 Tacoma TRD and said after a month, how can they make a truck that should be so good, so awful? I don't think he owned it six months. But I'd buy one over a Subaru. So many people I know have had so many bad experiences with them, I would never, ever consider one.

In reply to NOHOME :

The road-going Barcaloungers of the malaise era were an affront to car design everywhere. 

I love my Dodge Power Wagon. Hard to beat a '70's truck for overall utility and grunt per dollar.

For daily driver duties, I'm very much a "does it run and drive?" type guy. I've owned Chevys, Pontiacs, GMCs, Cadillacs, Fords, Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Mazdas and Mitsubishis. They've all got their pros and cons, you just have to decide what pros and what cons are acceptable to you.

wearymicrobe said:

Mercedes, every modern Mercedes. I have no idea what people see in the modern models they just appear to be made purely to be leased and then sold at auction. 

Absolutely. Not only do I hate them as a company, I've hated every vehicle they made since, I don't know, the early '90s.

American cars. As a person who grew up outside of the USA, the prevailing thought was always that american cars were sofas on wheels. My predilection has always been for sportscar handling. The mental bias has never been tested.

NOHOME said:

American cars. As a person who grew up outside of the USA, the prevailing thought was always that american cars were sofas on wheels. My predilection has always been for sportscar handling. The mental bias has never been tested.

As a younger man I loathed American cars but years later I came to appreciate their sofa on wheels because they are very good at this.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I'd rather deal our 110 degree days than the oppressive humidity you probably get.

Late June through early September are oppressive here. 100 degrees and 80% humidity, typically doesn't even get down to 80 until right before the sun comes up. 

But then we typically have pretty mild winters, most of the time. But like back in 2022 in December when I picked up the car from having some fun stuff done, it was -15 with a -30 windchill. 

Oklahoma weather is wild. 

As I sit here with a garage full of Kia's that I love, two 2023's and the 13 racecar, I see the bias daily. We bought the best tool for our toolbox at the best price we could find. That led the wife to a fwd Seltos and for me, the car ive been trying to build since 2002 the 23 forte gt manual. 
 

I've had gms. They have their pluses and minuses. The last of the cc gmt800 were the last real trucks with the properly folding rear seat. Had a Toyota that was the least reliable vehicle we've ever owned and that's saying something. The fords I've had were uninspiring and a maintenance nightmare. The Chryslers were trash. I will not buy German because I have none of the tools and not nearly a large enough wallet to keep them in the road. Hondas are just out because I'm a stubborn ass. 
 

for us, the Koreans have offered the right tools at the right prices for almost 2 decades. Not seeing that ending anytime soon. 

Mr_Asa said:

Sometime in the 90s GM cornered the market in poor sight lines and unnecessary blind spots, since then they are very giving when it cones to doling them out.  Combined with the fact that their seating position always aggravates my knee and I have no real reason to search them out.

 

Had a chance to run an errand in one of the salesmen's trucks today.

Still hate em.  Windshield feels smaller/more crowded than my '93 F150.  No good place to put your feet, arms, or phone.  (Seriously, these are full size "work trucks" and my steel toe shod footsies dont fit?  WTF? I'm not that huge.)

The cupholders, though.  Those are solid.  I like a good, non-rattly cupholder.

My engineering background and therefore dislike of Subarus keeps me from buying bad cars with bad engine designs.

Unfortunately my wife likes them, so I get to take care of the ones she buys.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Subarus are designed by engineers who were allowed to do their thing without other departments getting in their way and telling them what to do.

OTOH it started to go downhill when Marketing tried to blandify them, doing things like putting the spare tire under the trunk instead of under the hood.  You're not going to put groceries under the hood, why would you waste trunk space with the spare tire?

maschinenbau said:

My engineering background and therefore dislike of Subarus keeps me from buying bad cars with bad engine designs.

Unfortunately my wife likes them, so I get to take care of the ones she buys.

I guess we must have bought the three unicorn Subarus; both Outbacks and the 2.5 RS served us well as none of them had the head gasket issues. 

The current Outback does everything I need really well; it's pretty much the Swiss army knife of cars.

maschinenbau said:

My engineering background and therefore dislike of Subarus keeps me from buying bad cars with bad engine designs.

Unfortunately my wife likes them, so I get to take care of the ones she buys.

Agree that Subaru engines fly in the face of proper engineering. Way too many parts and complexity for a low power 4 banger. Two cylinder heads, 4 cams and 2 cam phasors for one engine. They are also horrendous to remove/replace and rebuild. 

Unfortunately I like the FRS  chassis and it only comes with the Subaru Kludge of an engine. 

It's definitely Subaru for me. I don't trust the brand as a whole. Which is a shame because they check so many boxes. Maybe someday I will roll the dice. They have nailed a subset of the culture.

SO many people I know have a Subaru, and so often they are in some state of broken. So if the engineers were allowed to do their thing, I want different engineers designing my car. I worry about the flat four design, same thoughts NOHOME shared. No me gusta. I can't tell you how many times I hear about people needing to put a new engine in. 

There are also multiple Subaru specialty shops in my area, so that's either a bad sign, or good news that you can get good expertise, or both. 

Every time I think, maybe they aren't so bad, I remember the multiple times I've been stranded by the brand. More than any other by far. 

I would have bought a Toyota 86 over my ND Miata if they came with the 2AR-FE 2.5L like they should have. 

In reply to NOHOME :

I get that they are goofy; I've called them Japanese Volvos.

There are many silly features / things on them. Like why does the clutch master need a dash pot to soften the engagement? They provided a manual trans but by installing that are saying "we know our customers don't now how to drive a stick. Then there's the we over tighten the steering rack because our tall wagons tend to sway in the wind.............a bigger rear bar would have been to simple.

Despite the quirkiness I like mine because it will do some basic soft roading and it doesn't suck to drive on a curvy road.

Our three were pre and post head gasket era so I suspect that's why we've done well with them. 

You guys are talking about the modern Subarus that are downright generic.

The good ones had cable clutches.  And a device (under the spare tire) that held brake pressure with the clutch down but only if the car was pointed uphill.  Properly adjusted it was a completely seamless hill holder.

That spare tire was under the hood because there was room there, and being under the hood meant that when you got a flat, you didn't have to unload the trunk/tailgate to get to the spare.  The bolt pattern was very wide and the lug nuts were fine thread so they only needed 65ft-lb of torque, making it super easy to change a tire.

Also, being under the hood meant they didn't need to make room for it under the trunk, so the interiors and trunk space were incredible for cars of their size.  Mine comfortably carried five non-small people on occasion, along with a tailgate full of camping gear.

The engines with OHC had two cambelts. The side of the engine that had the distributor (left side) also was the belt that drove the oil pump, so if you lost that belt the engine would stop.  No chance of driving with no oil pressure.  In theory if the other belt broke you could drive on one bank, but the more highly loaded left side was usually the one that broke first.  Being a non interference engine, this was more of an inconvenience than a major expense.

Spark plugs could be changed while standing up next to the car with a 3' extension if you so desired.

The handbrake worked the FRONT brakes, not the rears, which is the logical choice.  The handbrake was strong enough that you could safely drive the vehicle normally with no hydraulics at all.  If you had a 4wd model then shifting to 4wd allowed the handbrake to work on all four wheels, too.

Then they tried to out-Toyota Toyota and replaced that stuff with the Legacy and Impreza and nearly died as a company.

But back when they let the nerds build the cars logically (if unconventionally) they were great.

Except for the rust. My god the rust.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The good ones had cable clutches. 

I thought mine was goofy for having a cable actuated hydraulic clutch. The master sat latitudinally on the firewall actuated by a cable from the pedal.