JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
6/2/22 4:53 p.m.

[Editor's note: This article originally appeared in the June 2013 issue of Grassroots Motorsports, before the "Dieselgate" scandal and when both the Volt and Beetle TDI were new cars on the market.]

It’s probably time to admit it: The future may not be as exciting as we’ve been led to believe. We can all certainly be thankful that August …

Read the rest of the story

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
6/2/22 4:56 p.m.

Just got this article on site because a thread about it got revived early today:

Essay on Volt/TDI Article

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
6/2/22 6:29 p.m.

I drove that TDI Beetle during touring laps of The Mitty, back in the day!  It was torquey and really not that underpowered. 

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/3/22 11:06 a.m.

In reply to Colin Wood :

It's fun to see how far the average person has come regarding alternative power.  
 From EV's are for Hippies to EV's don't  have required range, to EV's are too expensive.    
  Since the New Chevy Bolt is $25,xxx  that make electricity penny cheap. 

Tig
Tig New Reader
8/28/22 1:43 p.m.

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.


Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/28/22 2:16 p.m.

In reply to Tig :

Tuners are already not permitted and never were.

 

That said, you bring up an interesting point.  EVs are exempt from Clean Air Act provisions.

RustBeltSherpa
RustBeltSherpa Reader
8/28/22 2:18 p.m.
Tig said:

As if Big Brother government of the future will ever allow a "tuner garage of the future" 

There will be no 'tuners' permitted and the aftermarket industry will slowly die with ICE 

 

Check out Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion. He was creating tire-smoking CRX EV conver-sions in the early 1990s. Tesla borrowed heavily on Cocconi's EV engineering expertise. Perhaps Tesla wouldn't even be a thing today without that expertise.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
8/28/22 4:26 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Colin Wood :

It's fun to see how far the average person has come regarding alternative power.  
 From EV's are for Hippies to EV's don't  have required range, to EV's are too expensive.    
  Since the New Chevy Bolt is $25,xxx  that make electricity penny cheap. 

Although a lot of that is due to how far EVs themselves have come. In the 1990s, an EV might have a 40 mile range with a ton (literally) of lead acid batteries and would likely be a homebrew creation. Mainstream auto makers had a few experimental test mules that you couldn't buy, and any EV for sale would be a conversion put together by an outfit closer to an organized hobby than a business. They were for hippies back then, and a couple niche uses.

And it's going to be a while before $10,000 buys a reasonably serviceable used EV. Though if the battery packs can hold up, probably only a matter of time.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/29/22 2:54 a.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

As long as that magic emissions free stuff keeps getting pumped through the walls, he is right, though. 
Solar will charge your ev all night long, and wind turbines work 24/7/365. 

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
8/29/22 3:28 a.m.
Tig said:

As if Big Brother government of the future will ever allow a "tuner garage of the future" 

There will be no 'tuners' permitted and the aftermarket industry will slowly die with ICE 

 

"That newfangled electronic fuel injection will be the end of tuning, just you wait and see." - some 1980's enthusiasts

No emissions to violate laws with reprogramming the computer to put down more power... Or upgrading battery packs.  Or swapping bigger aftermarket electric motors. Or adding additional motors for awd...

 

Prices will continue to fall as production expands

 

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
8/29/22 3:34 a.m.
03Panther said:

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

As long as that magic emissions free stuff keeps getting pumped through the walls, he is right, though. 
Solar will charge your ev all night long, and wind turbines work 24/7/365. 

There's a lot of activity recycling battery cells that have lost enough capacity to make them not too useful for evs into stationary power banks to help with this.

Battery only holds about 75% charge, so diminished range no good for the ev? Add it to a bank by the solar station (after due safety testing) and it gets charged all day and powers the grid at night. 

There are also home solutions being done. See Tesla power wall.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/29/22 4:14 a.m.

I've had an interest in EVs, solar power and other cool stuff since the late '60s. Didn't take a math  genius to figure out I was too poor to play in that world, and still am. I know DIY saves a few bucks over paying full price for stuff. And the whole subject is leaps and bounds ahead of where we were then. 
I also know a lot of the facts that get repeated ain't actually facts. 
Its all an intellectual discussion for me, anyway, as I am a decimal point or two below the target market. 

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
8/29/22 5:16 a.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

Price keeps tumbling down as scales of production ramp up. The next 5-10 years, there will be a lot more affordable spares and solutions on the market.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/29/22 9:18 a.m.

In reply to Apexcarver :

Oh, absolutely. Things have improved. And , other than a natural plateau from time to time, at a logarithmic scale.  
And they now get more output per square ft than they used to. 
But they advertise in square mm, and average household needs are already needed to be measured in square yards. 
If I cut down a lot of trees (won't be happening) and paneled the part of my roof facing correctly, and filled the available yard with panels instead of grass, I could maybe reduce my power bill by 10-20%. Add charging a car to that, and my power is not gonna go to "FREE" as many proponents (including on here - at least you stick to more realistic data!) LOUDLY claim!!!

wish the economical superconductor was here, but wanting it don't make it so. 
Remember: "as soon as we get nuclear plants operating, we won't even need meters at the houses". 

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
8/29/22 11:56 a.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

I agree that it wont generate everything, but, if it can take up a significant portion of power requirement and is iterated across the grid...  (10-20% counts as significant)

It just sounds like you are saying "its not worth doing because it doesnt solve the whole problem".  I would disagree with that notion if that is what you are trying to say.  I am not saying "go get solar now" I am saying its a worthwhile consideration.  Yeah, solar doesnt work everywhere or for everything, but it has a place as part of a portfolio approach.

 

But we digress.  The primary thing is that, yeah, things are changing, but the sky is far from falling. Enthusiasts will overcome and adapt and there are aspects that are downright exciting.  Hell, there are multiple 1,000hp equavilent EV's on the market or coming on in the next few years... 

  1. Tesla Plaid - $130K - 1020hp
  2. Lucid Air - $150K - 1050hp
  3. Faraday FF91 - $TBD - 1050hp

and for comparisons sake...  Corvette Zo6 - 670hp - $106K

Yeah, its in the luxury market, but not per-se supercar deep and its still somewhat emerging tech where prices will be dropping.   Thats the OEMs, when you can order motors on their own on the aftermarket?  I mean, GM has the E-crate thing that puts out something like 700hp.  Yeah, price is high, but thats for now...  It will trend downward.

 

 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
8/29/22 10:56 p.m.

I agree with the " we digress. "
I will point out I mentioned that your reasonable discussions are not what I am disagreeing with. So you MAY be reading something into my comments that is not there. I AM writing in disagreement  to the commenters that say it will magically fix everything. You have never said that, that I am aware of. 
I have NEVER said alternatives are not worth looking into, trying, or developing. In fact, I often state that I've had a fairly high interest since the late '60s

It just that it's a very popular thing for some people to repeat reteric, with out knowing (or wanting to know) anything but what they heard on the news.
10-20% can be a significant amount, but not in the secinario described in context. 
My face to face conversations are bad enough, but my written comucations are not the best. I only responded to you,to clarify your misinterpretation (my fault, I'm sure) of a generalized statement I made. Not to disagree with anything you have said.

We are not as far apart as you might think!

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