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Sonic
Sonic UberDork
4/14/22 8:23 a.m.

I'm tightening down the list of potentials for my next winter daily driver and tow pig to replace my 03 Suburban now that my wife and I are both actually going to work most days.  The 2016 Escalade ESV is one of the two leading contenders right now, mostly because it gives the big 6.2 V8 and the 8 speed transmission, good bones for towing, and the utility of the long body.  The Subrurban didn't get the 6.2 until 2019 and the Yukon Denali which did seems to be the same price at this point. 

DOD I know is a problem on the GenIV motors, is it still an issue with the GenV? I can disable it pretty easily with a plug in adapter by the looks of it.  How is the 8 speed holding up? Any other issues common to the 2015-2021 Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade that I should watch out for? 

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/14/22 8:48 a.m.

From what i read AFM/DOD is still an issue. A bit less of an issue but it is still an issue.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
4/14/22 9:06 a.m.

In my opinion, DoD is actually worse on the Gen V motors (and worse again on the '19+ motor). On the Gen IVs, it was a matter of if it failed. In my 10 years with GM, I've never actually touched the AFM on a Gen IV engine. On Gen Vs, it's a matter of when it will turn a pushrod into a banana, and they frequently fling the valvetrain apart before they hit 100k miles. I've done many Gen V lifters and VLOMs. Oil pumps aren't super common, but I've still seen a few of them fail or set codes. Injector troubles are really common, they'll set a P050D Cold Start Rough Idle and that's your sign to yank the intake manifold and replace all the fuel injectors. 

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/14/22 9:33 a.m.

Look for my Gen 3 in your service bay right now. There for the airbag recall. I am still sorting out the multitude of crap that was wrong with it on purchase. I am half expecting a call from the service writer to tell me a list of things that are wrong.

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/14/22 9:35 a.m.

Those 8 speeds are not great. There is a torque converter shudder issue that seems to plague them. Some people have been able to get dealerships to correct the problem and others seem to keep going through transmissions and trans fluid swaps with no end in sight.

I was looking at +15 Yukon Denalis last summer and bought a 2011 Escalade ESV instead to avoid the unknown of the 8 speed.  I can deal with VVT and DOD on the port injected motors.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
4/14/22 9:50 a.m.

In reply to NY Nick :

Sorry if we're a little slow today. We've got 4 guys out, and not oil change techs but some of our heavy lifters, so we're running around like our heads are on fire and our asses are catching.

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/14/22 9:56 a.m.

In reply to NickD :

I have time. If you are open tomorrow I can get it then. 

Sonic, in a couple weeks I can give my impression on trailer towing with a Gen 3. It has DOD but when I drive I rarely see it turn to a V4. I have never had more than 4 gears in anything I have owned so going to a 6 speed is kind of weird so far, there are speeds that it swaps back and forth between gears. I have to imagine that is worse with an 8 speed. 

The 6.2 has no lack of power.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
4/14/22 10:08 a.m.

I have a few friends with that transmission, though not specifically behind the 6.2. All of them have a shudder issue. There is one local road where they all seem to be able to replicate it pretty consistently, downhill into an uphill sweeping S turns over a crest around 55 mph. Haven't actually ridden with any of them to see it happen though. 2 of the 4  have had me turn off the DOD feature with EFILive. One said it helped with the shudder (must have been happening going between modes or something) and both report losing 1-2 mpg highway if they're running empty.

Opti
Opti Dork
4/14/22 2:23 p.m.

The AFM failures are worse with the GenV. Perfect reason to do a small BTR/TSP cam and AFM delete. Ive been told they are a little less likely to fail if you just tune it out.

GM says change the fluid for the shutter. Ive had a little but not much luck with that.

They are really capable, comfortable trucks though, and pretty much anything that new has warts, Id rock one.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro SuperDork
4/14/22 3:30 p.m.

In reply to NY Nick :

My 2013 Ram 1500 with the Hemi doesn't go into DOD 4 cyl mode when the tow/haul button is on, only when it is off. I wonder if GM does the same.  I do like the 6 speed better than a 4 speed automatic for towing, not as much rpm drop during shifts.

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/14/22 4:11 p.m.

In reply to 81cpcamaro :

I don't know if it disables the DOD in tow mode. I hope to find out Saturday, if not one more week. My camper is the only thing I tow heavy enough to make the truck work. 
I know it's only peripherally related to the OP but he is asking about towing with a similar truck. 

Sonic
Sonic UberDork
4/14/22 4:36 p.m.

Having more power and more than only 4 gears is a big part of why I'm looking for something newer.  The 4L80 I have now is durable, but towing on hills is a challenge with the engine lugging and not maintaining 60 or in second with the engine screaming away and the trans temp steadily climbing.   
 

Sad to hear that the GenV is worse.  The fix is quite in depth with replacing the cams and a head off job.  Not sure I want to deal with that for such a new and expensive car.   The full frame of the Cad and room are nice, now I need to decide if that is worth the hassle over the seemingly more reliable and nicer to drive GL550 (as I already have the Mercedes software and am used to working on them).   The Fords of this era are really outdated and I don't like the interiors, the sequoia is ancient and rust prone, QX80 is pretty small inside for something so big.   There's no easy button at this price point, the 18+ Fords would be good but they are all still $50k+.  I don't want a pickup either.  

Opti
Opti Dork
4/14/22 5:27 p.m.

In reply to Sonic :

If you are used to working on MB, I wouldnt be scared of a head pull on an LT. Its easy. GM will tell you its an engine out service, its not.

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
4/14/22 7:18 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to Sonic :

If you are used to working on MB, I wouldnt be scared of a head pull on an LT. Its easy. GM will tell you its an engine out service, its not.

Seconded.  They may have bolted on (and in) some shiny, fancy, futuristic bits, but on a basic level, it's still an old school American V8. 

Sonic
Sonic UberDork
4/14/22 9:30 p.m.

I have no doubt that I can do the work, it just bothers me to spend $40k on a 6 year old car and then have to spend $1k in parts and take it down to a short block right away to prevent it from eating itself.   

grover
grover GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/14/22 11:46 p.m.

Mind boggling that people put up with that just because it's a simple American V8. One of the reasons I'll probably never get rid of my sequoia, it just works. 

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
4/15/22 9:13 a.m.
grover said:

Mind boggling that people put up with that just because it's a simple American V8. One of the reasons I'll probably never get rid of my sequoia, it just works. 

I don't know that I'd be willing to put up with it (and I certainly wouldn't be happy about it), but at least I know that it's within the realm of things I can fix without a shop or spending money on exotic tools. 

Opti
Opti Dork
4/15/22 10:09 a.m.

In reply to grover :

Its not something I would put up with on a truck "for truck stuff," but pretty much every newer truck has a relatively common failure that is big money to have a shop fix, and if you want a newer truck and all of its capability and luxury its just par the course. Thats why my truck is 25 years old, and I still believe reliability in general has gone down since about the mid 2000s.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/15/22 11:56 a.m.
Opti said:

In reply to Sonic :

If you are used to working on MB, I wouldnt be scared of a head pull on an LT. Its easy. GM will tell you its an engine out service, its not.

GM says it is an engine out job?  Alldata doesn't smiley

The only thing that sucks about doing it engine in is torquing the head bolts.  I have a fancy digital torque wrench (bought day before having to do heads..) and I was seeing up to 265 ft-lb on the bolts while bringing them up to angle.

Opti
Opti Dork
4/15/22 12:01 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Sorry I got mixed up. GM says camshaft is an engine out job, it isnt. No one says heads are an engine out job. With LSs I rarely saw a hurt cam, with LTs, I rarely see an undamaged cam when a lifter dies. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
4/15/22 2:09 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Sorry I got mixed up. GM says camshaft is an engine out job, it isnt. No one says heads are an engine out job. With LSs I rarely saw a hurt cam, with LTs, I rarely see an undamaged cam when a lifter dies. 

Interesting. At our dealership we do E36 M3loads of LT lifters, but we don't often do camshafts. In fact, in all my Gen V lifter jobs, I personally have never done a cam. The guy in my neighboring bay had one that needed a cam this summer that caused some head-scratching. He pulled the old cam out, and it came out just fine. New camshaft arrived, it slid in like 2 journals and wouldn't go in any farther or come out. He finally got it out after lots of finangling and called TAC and there were concerns about maybe a shifted cam bearing or a burr on the bearing, so they had him pull the engine and send it out to a machine shop, where it was determined that there were no damaged bearings. Ended up finding out that the new camshaft was bent.

fidelity101
fidelity101 UberDork
4/15/22 3:56 p.m.
81cpcamaro said:

In reply to NY Nick :

My 2013 Ram 1500 with the Hemi doesn't go into DOD 4 cyl mode when the tow/haul button is on, only when it is off. I wonder if GM does the same.  I do like the 6 speed better than a 4 speed automatic for towing, not as much rpm drop during shifts.

I had the 6l90 in my truck and even with the big block towing it was annoying, lots of shifting for no reason, never would upshift on time. There is a reason I have an 8 speed ram now. 

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
4/17/22 9:04 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Opti said:

In reply to Sonic :

If you are used to working on MB, I wouldnt be scared of a head pull on an LT. Its easy. GM will tell you its an engine out service, its not.

GM says it is an engine out job?  Alldata doesn't smiley

The only thing that sucks about doing it engine in is torquing the head bolts.  I have a fancy digital torque wrench (bought day before having to do heads..) and I was seeing up to 265 ft-lb on the bolts while bringing them up to angle.

Either that's a very long wrench, you used a cheater bar, or you compete in strongman.  I can't begin to pull 265 in an engine bay at that angle.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
4/17/22 9:07 a.m.
NickD said:
Opti said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Sorry I got mixed up. GM says camshaft is an engine out job, it isnt. No one says heads are an engine out job. With LSs I rarely saw a hurt cam, with LTs, I rarely see an undamaged cam when a lifter dies. 

Interesting. At our dealership we do E36 M3loads of LT lifters, but we don't often do camshafts. In fact, in all my Gen V lifter jobs, I personally have never done a cam. The guy in my neighboring bay had one that needed a cam this summer that caused some head-scratching. He pulled the old cam out, and it came out just fine. New camshaft arrived, it slid in like 2 journals and wouldn't go in any farther or come out. He finally got it out after lots of finangling and called TAC and there were concerns about maybe a shifted cam bearing or a burr on the bearing, so they had him pull the engine and send it out to a machine shop, where it was determined that there were no damaged bearings. Ended up finding out that the new camshaft was bent.

How does that even happen?  Usually they break if dropped.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/22 9:19 a.m.
rslifkin said:
Opti said:

In reply to Sonic :

If you are used to working on MB, I wouldnt be scared of a head pull on an LT. Its easy. GM will tell you its an engine out service, its not.

Seconded.  They may have bolted on (and in) some shiny, fancy, futuristic bits, but on a basic level, it's still an old school American V8. 

No it isn't.  No sheetmetal tinwork, no carburetor, no adjustable valvetrain, no ignition points, no great slobbering oil leaks from the rope oil seals and the poorly stamped, easily warped covers held on by not enough fasteners and "sealed" with multipiece cork gaskets against as-cast surfaces, not even machined flat...

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