Huge, broad question incoming!
Which is better between FM's V Maxx and Konis w/ FM springs? The car is question is primarily a fun time street car. Google searches have mostly resulted in "hurr durr, XIDAs or nothing bro." Which is less than helpful. I'm more concerned with ride quality and handling than adjusting ride height.
I’ll let you know in about a month. I’m putting the vmax on my 93 and my 96 already has the fm springs and Konis. Or you can wait for Kieth to chime in.
Relevant to my interests. I'm looking to have an NB2 in my driveway by the end of the summer and have this exact question.
I've had/have both. My last 1.8 NA had the VMaxx Classic with NB rear top hats, the current NA has the Konis w/ springs.
I like both, and both are (IMHO) completely streetable. After talking to FM I ended up with the Konis on the current NA mostly because the VMaxx may not have managed to arrive in time for the last Miatas at LS. I'd think you'd be happy with either, but that's just like, the opinion of someone on the Interwebz.
Hey guys!
We asked ourselves this same question when we added the V-Maxx to our product line, actually. The thing is, there isn't a black and white answer. They have different attributes. We couldn't come up with a solid reason to choose one over the other, so we sell both. If you look at the FM staff parking lot, you'll find that staff cars are pretty much split down the middle as to which setup they run with the occasional outlier that runs Fox.
The V-Maxx are the best coilover package available in that price range. They're not as good as Fox or some of the other Brand X parts, but they also don't have the associated price tag. Adjustability, cornerweighting and higher spring rates than the Koni/FM setup. We've been making running changes to these over the years to reflect what our customers are asking of them - a longer front spring for better behavior at high ride heights, an offset rear shock to improve halfshaft clearance at lower heights for example - so online reports may be out of date.
The Koni/FM package is an almost perfect setup if you agree with the design decisions - the ride height and the associated spring rate. The shocks have a lifetime warranty and the spring metallurgy is really good.
Personally? I like the Koni/FM setup for the car described in the original question. That's partly because I get to make those design decisions, but also because it just plain works and it will still be working when we're celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Miata. My own DD Miata runs on it. For a more track-biased car, I'd be on V-Maxx for a little more setup capability.
The newer the car, the better it works on V-Maxx because of the chassis stiffness and a little more weight. An NB2 is surprisingly comfortable on the Track Pack setup, although I'd probably still recommend Classic or Sport for a pure street car.
One thing to note - the NA and NB versions of the V-Maxx are the same once installed. We actually convert the NAs over to an NB stack. The NA Koni/FM setup can use our upper shock mounts which give a nice improvement in rear compression travel.
Edit: Keith got here and had way better info...
I'm generally not a fan of off the shelf lowering springs but for your use I'd probably lean towards the koni setup despite that. Or pony up the extra money for konis/ground control coilover sleeves.
Question for dps - what's wrong with off the shelf lowering springs that makes you reject all of them? Is it because they share a common problem or you've been burned by ones that are poorly done?
Fun fact: the Ground Control rates for the Miata are based off the rates of the FM springs :)
^I'm not dps but Generally speaking, off the shelf lowering springs for many platforms seem prone to having too low of a spring rate for their lowered height (to avoid blowing cheap or oem shocks maybe?) and you get into the bump stops a lot which results in a poor ride.
In my experience that includes the original slightly lower rate FM springs I had for a bit on a street miata, as well as the standard 375/250 GC miata rates. Several people I know went directly from that range to the also-common 550/375ish or 700/450ish range and found the car rode better with no other changes (same shocks, ride height, bump stops) because it stayed off the bump stops more.
The cheap lowering springs the POs put on my mazda3 and my old Impreza both had the same issue.
We've learned a lot in the 13 years since those original FM springs were discontinued. Better metallurgy (if you had a used set, there was a very good chance they were sagged), a chance in the coil spacing for improved bind length, better shocks (the commonly used AGX in that period was inexpensive and had a lot of numbers on the dial, but was not a great shock) and we have changed our recommendations on bumpstops. We also raised the ride height 1/2" between the original and the current generation springs, which is when the they really started to work well. I'd love to get you behind the wheel of a current generation set.
For some reason, the usual recipe for "lowering springs" (we don't consider our springs lowering springs, they're a performance spring that happens to sit lower) is to drop the ride height by 1-1.5" and raise the spring rate very slightly. I think this is done so people think they'll be comfortable. Every time there's a new Miata chassis, the market has to to go through the "but these springs are only 15% stiffer, so they'll ride better!" learning curve. We're doing that with the ND right now.
700/450 needs some serious shock revalving, and I've driven at least one of the cars whose high profile owner claims it "rides as well as stock" with rates that belong in a pure track car. He's making that up and he knows it, because he acknowledged it when I called him on it in person. But it's part of his shtick and he can't back down now.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Rad, thanks Keith!
This place has ruined me. I actually expect clear, good answers like that to questions asked elsewhere.
Keith Tanner said:We've learned a lot in the 13 years since those original FM springs were discontinued. Better metallurgy (if you had a used set, there was a very good chance they were sagged), a chance in the coil spacing for improved bind length, better shocks (the commonly used AGX in that period was inexpensive and had a lot of numbers on the dial, but was not a great shock) and we have changed our recommendations on bumpstops. We also raised the ride height 1/2" between the original and the current generation springs, which is when the they really started to work well. I'd love to get you behind the wheel of a current generation set.
700/450 needs some serious shock revalving, and I've driven at least one of the cars whose high profile owner claims it "rides as well as stock" with rates that belong in a pure track car. He's making that up and he knows it, because he acknowledged it when I called him on it in person. But it's part of his shtick and he can't back down now.
I know you've revised/improved those springs which is why i pointed out that my experience was with the old ones - but it answers why someone might dismiss cheap aftermarket lowering springs as a whole - like you said much of the market is STILL doing that stuff.
Understood on the valving, 700/450 on koni yellow/race valving made me cringe to drive it through downtown DC or on potholed back roads, but it was still better than smashing the bump stops with lighter rates. The updated setup, 700/450 on custom valved DA converted yellows is my favorite car ever, I'll give up those shocks only when I give up driving. But no, it's not "like stock" by any means.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Think I know who that is... hilarious. I watch him on YT, but always wonder if he’s clucking because of sponsorship or advertisement.
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