Food For Thought: 90% of People Racing Will Never Win a Race

I am ultra competitive and I love racing. At one time, even though I could, I wouldn't even practice because I liked the wheel to wheel action almost exclusively. I've won a  lot of races but rarely has it ever started out that way. On entering a class and finding out where I run, often mid to back of the pack I'll start to work on my plan to move up. And that's a big part of the fun to me, setting goals and trying to achieve them. But there's no more fun than fierce wheel to wheel action, or working your way through the pack to finish well

I like to win as much as anyone, but I like to learn and improve even more. I'm in a race class  that typically has 30-50 car fields and the guys at the front are pro-level drivers. I'd say that there is zero chance of me winning anything, but I grt better each race and have fun dicing it up with the mid-packers. As another poster mentioned, I just don't have the ultra-competitive streak or the risk tolerance that the lead drivers do. 

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

It may seem strange as I'm the guy who started this post but I am ultra competitive if I'm good at something. I'm good at driving so I'm competitive about it. Fortunately this is tempered by my inate cheapness.

In my case this ultra competitive streak is what makes me pass 4-5 much faster cars on the opening corners of the start. The most hilarious of which was my stuffing it up the inside of a Datsun Roadster that qualified 8 seconds a lap faster at turn 3.

I'm keenly aware that in the Datsun I'm pretty much a rapid Chihuahua snarling at a grizzly bear........not that it will stop me from trying ever time.

This threads really got me thinking. 
Are racers more or less tolerant of failure than others? Or just better motivated by it? I think there's a large slice of the population that won't try something if they think they might fail.

Objectively in racing if you don't win you have failed. So are "we" just more accepting of the failure (also to the physical risks involved? ) and as someone in their 3rd decade of life I wonder if this willingness to try something knowing you'll not be successful is a dying character trait? 
 

1SlowVW said:

 

Objectively in racing if you don't win you have failed.

That, I think, is a pretty narrow view.  I go drag racing to tune my car.  If I run a 13.9 and the guy in the next lane runs a 12 flat, did I fail?  I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, I entered it with the objective of education and entertainment.  I would only have "failed" if I had a bad time and didn't learn anything.

I can understand the appeal of road racing instead of doing track days even if the "only" goal is entertainment.  At least you know you'll be grouped with people of similar spec cars.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:  I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, 

Then it's not a race

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

1SlowVW said:

 

Objectively in racing if you don't win you have failed.

That, I think, is a pretty narrow view.  I go drag racing to tune my car.  If I run a 13.9 and the guy in the next lane runs a 12 flat, did I fail?  I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, I entered it with the objective of education and entertainment.  I would only have "failed" if I had a bad time and didn't learn anything.

 

I can understand the appeal of road racing instead of doing track days even if the "only" goal is entertainment.  At least you know you'll be grouped with people of similar spec cars.

I agree there's some exaggerating going on to prove my point. 
I also think we both agree that managing your goals and expectations are key. 
But if you dialed in a 14.00 and ran a 13.99 than you did fail...but if that's your pb it's a win. 

How so?

If your only objective is to win, where do you you define that?  Do you define that at every braking point, every lap, every event, every season?  What if you are dialing in your vehicle, track knowledge, traffic skills this weekend?  Just stay home because you can't win right off the bat?

Come in and park the car in frustration after one lap because you weren't first to Turn 1 and therefore you lost?  Or do you drive the rest of the race and make up positions as things progress?

Stretch that timeline out a bit.  A lap is as to a race weekend.  Is it "not racing" because your objective is not to win but to gain education and experience so that you are in a better position a few "laps" (race weekends) further along?

I am not trying to suggest that this mindset is non-competitive!  Once can certainly have a competitive mindset even if the objective is not "winning the race".  In fact, one could argue that you must HAVE a competitive mindset in order to improve.

And when you DO "win".  What is a "win"?  Is it when you are faster than the group you've been running with or everyone in your class?  Do you discard the "win" if it was because other people had mechanical issues?  Does it count if you only "win" your class, and there were other classes that were faster?  Does it count if you didn't reset the track record?  (Someone else was faster than you)

There are a lot of ways to lose once you fixate on winning.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Pete, 

see my post on the first page, I think we mostly agree. I guess what I was driving at was that I think you need to have a real acceptance of t the fact that there could be mechanical failure, driver error, weather, other drivers ...any number it things that could have a negative affect on the outcome or your event. We seem to overlook all of those risks ( obviously some can be addressed with maintenance or training) . 
Put it this way, I don't think people bowling have the same aversion to risk as Motorsports participants. 

Tom1200 said:

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

It may seem strange as I'm the guy who started this post but I am ultra competitive if I'm good at something. I'm good at driving so I'm competitive about it. Fortunately this is tempered by my inate cheapness.

In my case this ultra competitive streak is what makes me pass 4-5 much faster cars on the opening corners of the start. The most hilarious of which was my stuffing it up the inside of a Datsun Roadster that qualified 8 seconds a lap faster at turn 3.

I'm keenly aware that in the Datsun I'm pretty much a rapid Chihuahua snarling at a grizzly bear........not that it will stop me from trying ever time.

Well said Tom 1200. 
    I too am very competitive as a driver restrained by my budget. ( sounds nicer than the truth of cheapness) since after all my budget is self imposed. 
     I further dress it up with pretense of a British Gentleman. " The right crowd and no crowding". Well except Sir Stirling Moss who was basically knighted because he could pass more people than most.   And of course Sir William Lyons. Who was knighted for building Jaguars that frequently won races.  
Don't you just love British Nobility? 
   I digress.  
 I consider it a win if I had at least one good dice, regardless of outcome.  And a waste of time if I ran around at the front of the pack for an unchallenged win. 

Mr. Peabody said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:  I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, 

Then it's not a race

By that definition half the field in F1 isn't racing.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

"Put it this way, I don't think people bowling have the same aversion to risk as Motorsports participants"

As an amateur bowler and car enthusiast whose entered competitions in both arenas I'd like to hear more about this statement.

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :

I suck at bowling and realize it takes a tremendous amount of skill to bowl well repeatedly.
 

But let's face it there are physical risks that go with strapping yourself into a race car, or race boat, or ridding a motorcycle. 
I think you need to be able to be able to justify those risks that I yourself and put them aside in order to be competitive in motorsports. I do not believe you need to do that to go bowling at any level. 

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

If that field consisted of two cars then yes, you are correct 

1SlowVW said:

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :

I suck at bowling and realize it takes a tremendous amount of skill to bowl well repeatedly.
 

But let's face it there are physical risks that go with strapping yourself into a race car, or race boat, or ridding a motorcycle. 
I think you need to be able to be able to justify those risks that I yourself and put them aside in order to be competitive in motorsports. I do not believe you need to do that to go bowling at any level. 

We all have different levels of courage or risk acceptance.
    Landing on aircraft carriers at night in a heavy sea state is well, high risk.  Flying around in a combat zone is the same thing. Combine the two and when forced to stop that I needed something that could approach that same adrenaline rush. 
   Racing old sports cars does it for me.  

I have won a race or two and it was nice but you are then left with this weird empty feeling. It is like my dog finally catching the rabbit and then not knowing what to do with it. I think most racers like the chase. Winning does not suck but in a weird way it put an end to the fun and excitement of the chase. 

To me, winning is a function of finishing position and fun.  If you can have a blast and land on the podium, you're doing it right.  Perspective from the mid-pack: a lot regulars on the podium have no idea how to have a good time.

In reply to Tyler H (Forum Supporter) :

Some people get way too serious about racing and it looks like a miserable way to do it.

Personally I don't expect to ever win any of the events I participate in. Perhaps I could if I changed cars, worked night and day on my driving skill, got experienced help, etc. However a win has never been the goal for me. Improvement and playing with cars I like is....not what everyone else is doing.

As others mentioned, they'd pick the mid pack dice over a win and this isn't the first time I've heard that. Many new drivers in GLTC are showing up just for the racing in the mid pack. 

Another side of it: I witnessed my friends weekend be made not by what even happened on track. His car was under prepped plus having fueling and other problems so he spent the races going round mostly by himself at the back. Bummed out as he was, it all turned around when two spectators came up who were excited about a crappy old Honda (89 civic) making race laps and wanted to talk. 

So, sure....90 percent of racers will never win a race. I'd be willing to nearly that number aren't doing it to win in the first place. We do it for the socialization, comradery, interest, friends, thrill, competition, personal goals, and just plain FUN of it.

1SlowVW said:

But let's face it there are physical risks that go with strapping yourself into a race car, or race boat, or ridding a motorcycle. 

Motorsports seem way less risky than skiing...

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

1SlowVW said:

But let's face it there are physical risks that go with strapping yourself into a race car, or race boat, or ridding a motorcycle. 

Motorsports seem way less risky than skiing...

It's hard to quantify danger. All Motorsports involve some risk, but not Motorsports all are more dangerous than conventional sports. 

Skiing a black diamond may be more dangerous than rental go karts  but running shifter karts is probably riskier than being on the bunny hill. 
 

I don't have to win, just be competitive. It got to the point that I was 5-8 seconds off the pace when Auto crossing  instead of being within  a second or 2. Then an event with 4 DNF off course flags in a place I really enjoyed driving at. I quit after that. The fun was gone after 20 years.

"...I discovered I was able to be on a podium, to have a certain success instead of being frustrated non-stop by my poor qualities as a student.  Then the satisfaction is not about the speed; the satisfaction is being good at something.
And if you win you find a new planet, Planet Success. The next stage is when all that is over, you realise that next to you were very talented people, but you were underneath the spotlight while they were in the shade.  It is very unfair in many ways."

-Jacky Ickx

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

1SlowVW said:

But let's face it there are physical risks that go with strapping yourself into a race car, or race boat, or ridding a motorcycle. 

Motorsports seem way less risky than skiing...

There technically a way to calculate both.  
   Figure the number of people who enter each and the number who die in each. 
  There is a pre selective in racing that doesn't exist in skiing. You don't need a physical to put on a pair of skis but you do to enter most races. 

Ooh another element to discuss; overly serious.

I've worked with a  24hrs of Daytona  and Indy car winner; while they didn't like to lose they would simply redouble their efforts for the next event. If that person can have a laugh at dinner after a tough loss then surely I can.

I literally know 3 amateurs who will say nothing for the entire 5 hour drive home if they get beat. Note this is simply how they are wired but I don't wish to be that way........that doesn't seem fun to me.

Don't get me wrong, I want to beat you. In fact the internal me wants to crush you like the little insignificant insect you are, but I also want to hang out with you after the race and have a good laugh. 

Years ago at the motocross track I'd lined my buddy up for an outside fake slide underneath pass; he heard me coming, at the exact moment I was on his rear tire he whacked the throttle open and covered my with sand and rock. I couldn't see a damn thing and he beat me by 10ft. We still laugh about it to this day. 

Man. Deep question. My competition experience is as thin as my hair, to speak nothing of my "racing" experience, so it's kind of hard to extrapolate from that. 
 

I do these things because I enjoy doing these things. There are a million activities in life that you can perform better than someone else, but if I don't inherently love the taste of hot dogs then eating a whole ton of them for a hot dog eating contest seems strange to me. "For the sake of winning" is not my comfort food. Now, once I am doing this thing I like to do, I would like to do it better than others, sure, but to the co-worker's question: the activity itself is enjoyable. The more time I have doing that activity, the better. 
 

Psst, don't tell anyone but the real reason I want to do another road rally is that I enjoy driving quickly on unpaved roads and having company while I do it. But yes, when I do it, I'll try hard to be perfect at the rules of the game and hope that my effort turned up better results than the next guy.