Looking at wheel options for my STH build on the Focus. The RS brembos and the 5x108 bolt pattern make wheel sizes limiting....So went to the Forgestar wheels website late this afternoon... I know they have dealers.
But there was a price request form to fill out and I'm thinking perfect! Deal with the manufacturer directly to figure out what I want and clearances since they make the wheels and then work with a local dealer or them to order them!
Pop in the info and expect an email tomorrow.
2 minutes later I get an email reply back...
"We do not fulfil price requests... here's the information for one of our dealers. I've CC'd them so they can take care of you"
and it's a seemingly random dealer in California
Am I alone to be annoyed by stuff like this?
I'd just rather the website say "we only work through dealers and here's a map to find one near you" instead of the misleading price request form that leaves me to assume I can work with them directly.
In my head...it would have made sense for them to tell me... the wheels cost X-Y range in that size but for proper fitment you'll need to work with a dealer to ensure these will work for your platform and application.
Feels like a shell game to me and after the stories of insane wait time for wheels....just leaves me with a bad taste....
Braid and Team Dynamics dealers have fitment and wheel price info posted in the RS forums and on their websites readily available......but I was hoping for a wheel width neither of them offer... which is unfortunate since they seem eager to do business in a straightforward manner.
Have you tried Method wheels? Have heard they are willing to do custom sets.
For what it's worth, I've had a good experience talking with our very own forum member Braid dealer. I didn't end up ordering wheels for reasons, but they were top notch to deal with.
STM317
SuperDork
3/22/19 7:56 a.m.
What's the advantage to having a dealer/distributor only sales model? These wheels are all custom anyway. Why can't they sell directly to the customer?
Because there are many retailers, take Vorshlag for instance, who already have specs setup for certain wheels that Forgestar the company may not know. Vs just buying your stock size, width, and offset.
https://vorshlag-store.com/pages/vorshlag-spec-wheels
I can see how it's a little annoying, but I don't really see it as that big of a deal.
z31maniac said:
Because there are many retailers, take Vorshlag for instance, who already have specs setup for certain wheels that Forgestar the company may not know. Vs just buying your stock size, width, and offset.
https://vorshlag-store.com/pages/vorshlag-spec-wheels
I can see how it's a little annoying, but I don't really see it as that big of a deal.
Keep in mind that Vorshlag's founder/owner/bossman has earned a reputation for himself as the automotive Soup Nazi...so if you order from there, be very careful not to get on his bad side.
Ian F
MegaDork
3/22/19 8:23 a.m.
STM317 said:
What's the advantage to having a dealer/distributor only sales model? These wheels are all custom anyway. Why can't they sell directly to the customer?
Because dealing with the public is a PITA?
B2B taxes are easier to deal with than consumer direct?
They already have existing dealer contracts and direct would void them and open them to lawsuits?
There are probably more reasons...
Ian F said:
STM317 said:
What's the advantage to having a dealer/distributor only sales model? These wheels are all custom anyway. Why can't they sell directly to the customer?
Because dealing with the public is a PITA?
B2B taxes are easier to deal with than consumer direct?
They already have existing dealer contracts and direct would void them and open them to lawsuits?
There are probably more reasons...
Dealers can act as your marketing arm.
Dealers can be given a "commission" without all the payroll tax implications.
Dealers don't require a salary.
Forgestar may be shifting the engineering work off onto the dealers.
You're right, the frustration is more because they phrased the path to contact wrong. Their website sets up an expectation different than the result (and the response is a little off putting.) Something like "Contact us to find your local dealer" or "Contact us to find a dealer who can help" would likely have changed your expectation entirely. I've seen that happen a few times as a result of having your technical people dealing with the front end of the business.
My company operates the same way but I will provide the MSRP for the core of the software package if asked. There's always customization afterwards that the dealer handles.
Forgestar simply may not be willing to provide MSRP if there's any chance custom work is involved.
GameboyRMH said:
z31maniac said:
Because there are many retailers, take Vorshlag for instance, who already have specs setup for certain wheels that Forgestar the company may not know. Vs just buying your stock size, width, and offset.
https://vorshlag-store.com/pages/vorshlag-spec-wheels
I can see how it's a little annoying, but I don't really see it as that big of a deal.
Keep in mind that Vorshlag's founder/owner/bossman has earned a reputation for himself as the automotive Soup Nazi...so if you order from there, be very careful not to get on his bad side.
Terry tells it like it is, not what you want to hear. I've done tons of business with Terry, so lets pass on spreading internet hyperbole.
STM317
SuperDork
3/22/19 9:05 a.m.
The0retical said:
Ian F said:
STM317 said:
What's the advantage to having a dealer/distributor only sales model? These wheels are all custom anyway. Why can't they sell directly to the customer?
Because dealing with the public is a PITA?
B2B taxes are easier to deal with than consumer direct?
They already have existing dealer contracts and direct would void them and open them to lawsuits?
There are probably more reasons...
Dealers can act as your marketing arm.
Dealers can be given a "commission" without all the payroll tax implications.
Dealers don't require a salary.
Forgestar may be shifting the engineering work off onto the dealers.
Good points guys. I guess I see it as having some downsides too though. It adds a middle man, which raises your prices making your product less affordable, and it adds another step in the process for the consumer, which can deter some people and result in lost sales.
I can see the value of a dealer for something like aftermarket wheels where you have a very custom product and potential clearance/fitment issues. Basically it puts transfers liability for a screw up to the dealer instead of the manufacturer. But I think you could do the same thing with direct sales to the customer and a waiver on custom products.
In reply to STM317 :
There's a few other issues as well.
This is one is more recent however. The Wayfair v South Dakota decision introduced some additional serious tax liability and tracking issues. A Tax Nexus report helps with this, but B2B is way easier for many corporations because they can end up meeting one of the thresholds, either monetary or number of orders, but not the other in a lot of cases (Or not at all if the dealers hold a tax exempt certificate.) Because of that, it gets them out of the reporting taxes to multiple states issue which is, quite frankly, a god damn nightmare which is only going to get worse.
It also means you don't need to employ the services of a very expensive (for a small to small mid-sized company) 3rd party to hold taxes and know when to disburse them.
Selling directly requires a lot more resources on the end of the manufacturer. While it's a great revenue stream, it comes with the tradeoff of having to employ more staff and sometimes stopping development on product lines until you've spooled up your in house group. Then you have to maintain the volume to continue to employ that staff while assuring your current dealers you're not going to cut them out. It's not a great dynamic to play with. Changing over from B2B to direct is very tricky and, when it goes wrong, it goes wrong spectacularly.
The0retical said:
You're right, the frustration is more because they phrased the path to contact wrong. Their website sets up an expectation different than the result (and the response is a little off putting.) Something like "Contact us to find your local dealer" or "Contact us to find a dealer who can help" would likely have changed your expectation entirely. I've seen that happen a few times as a result of having your technical people dealing with the front end of the business.
That is my exact frustrations... I don't mind doing work through a dealer... but the website was misleading on purpose and it was off putting..
STM317 said: But I think you could do the same thing with direct sales to the customer and a waiver on custom products.
Then you end up like Tire Rack, where they will only sell stock sized wheels and tires (outside of a few edge cases like a Miata) to an end consumer so they aren't responsible for you ordering something that doesn't fit.
Would you expect the manufacturer to know all these custom fitments like a C6Z will handle 18x12 18x13 with 335/345 Hoosiers under stock fenders?
The specialty dealers work with all this stuff and have the answers.
z31maniac said:
Terry tells it like it is, not what you want to hear. I've done tons of business with Terry, so lets pass on spreading internet hyperbole.
Oh I'm not spreading hyperbole, if you doubt me, do a little Googling...or place an order with them and then cancel it 
z31maniac said:
GameboyRMH said:
z31maniac said:
Because there are many retailers, take Vorshlag for instance, who already have specs setup for certain wheels that Forgestar the company may not know. Vs just buying your stock size, width, and offset.
https://vorshlag-store.com/pages/vorshlag-spec-wheels
I can see how it's a little annoying, but I don't really see it as that big of a deal.
Keep in mind that Vorshlag's founder/owner/bossman has earned a reputation for himself as the automotive Soup Nazi...so if you order from there, be very careful not to get on his bad side.
Terry tells it like it is, not what you want to hear. I've done tons of business with Terry, so lets pass on spreading internet hyperbole.
Terry is who he is and has earned his reputation... but none of my comments here have anything to do with him or Vorshlag so lets not get into any of that.
z31maniac said:
STM317 said: But I think you could do the same thing with direct sales to the customer and a waiver on custom products.
Then you end up like Tire Rack, where they will only sell stock sized wheels and tires (outside of a few edge cases like a Miata) to an end consumer so they aren't responsible for you ordering something that doesn't fit.
Would you expect the manufacturer to know all these custom fitments like a C6Z will handle 18x12 18x13 with 335/345 Hoosiers under stock fenders?
The specialty dealers work with all this stuff and have the answers.
Tire rack does check fitment on the stuff they stock.. FYI
I think you're missing my point. Call up Tire Rack and see if they will sell you a custom setup that doesn't match, or is very close to the stock specs. Outside of a few outliers, Miata's for example, they don't sell wild stuff.
For example, Tire Rack doesn't show that you can fit a 19x11 square setup on a 2018 Mustang GT.......which you can.
Call Sam Strano at StranoParts.com. Don’t use the website, just call him. He deals forgestar wheels and will help you get what you need. He got the custom offset forgestars that are on my car.
spacecadet said:
The0retical said:
You're right, the frustration is more because they phrased the path to contact wrong. Their website sets up an expectation different than the result (and the response is a little off putting.) Something like "Contact us to find your local dealer" or "Contact us to find a dealer who can help" would likely have changed your expectation entirely. I've seen that happen a few times as a result of having your technical people dealing with the front end of the business.
That is my exact frustrations... I don't mind doing work through a dealer... but the website was misleading on purpose and it was off putting..
To be fair their form is setup to aggregate all the information required to do the work. That eliminates a lot of back and forth with email or phone questions that a generic contact form leaves open. It's not a bad way of doing it, but the optics are a bit bad when you loop in a dealer unexpectedly after requesting a bunch of specific information.
z31maniac said:
I think you're missing my point. Call up Tire Rack and see if they will sell you a custom setup that doesn't match, or is very close to the stock specs. Outside of a few outliers, Miata's for example, they don't sell wild stuff.
For example, Tire Rack doesn't show that you can fit a 19x11 square setup on a 2018 Mustang GT.......which you can.
This is fact. I never enter car information on Tire Rack. The website freaks out if you try to order a set of 275/85R18s for a G35. It literally will not put that size tire in the cart. Their site also says the wheels on my car won't fit either. It's CYA on their part and probably saves them a bundle of trouble with returns. It doesn't bother me any, I just don't tell them what car I'm ordering for.
A lot of excuses for a website that doesn’t do what it says it does. I guess given lawyers and people that don’t mind being abused, I should expect it.
I ordered Forgestars for my ZR-1 and they were pretty good. I considered doing it again for my Porsche, but the Apex group buy was too good a deal. Their communication and final product is better too, although there are less choices.
Que up more excuses and thanks for the heads up on Vorshlag. I will avoid them too. The customer makes the business work, not the proprietor. The proprietor can make it good or bad. Questionable isn’t an option. The customer keeps the business alive though.
Toyman01 said:
z31maniac said:
I think you're missing my point. Call up Tire Rack and see if they will sell you a custom setup that doesn't match, or is very close to the stock specs. Outside of a few outliers, Miata's for example, they don't sell wild stuff.
For example, Tire Rack doesn't show that you can fit a 19x11 square setup on a 2018 Mustang GT.......which you can.
This is fact. I never enter car information on Tire Rack. The website freaks out if you try to order a set of 275/85R18s for a G35. It literally will not put that size tire in the cart. Their site also says the wheels on my car won't fit either. It's CYA on their part and probably saves them a bundle of trouble with returns. It doesn't bother me any, I just don't tell them what car I'm ordering for.
I know it was a typo, but I now I want to see a RallyX G35 on Monster Truck tires.
So I ended up getting exactly what I wanted.The Cali dealer Forgestar reffered in their email sent me a quote, said 17x8.5 ET40 will fit my application. 6-8 week lead time to produce and 50% deposit to begin the work.... And they're less than $350 per wheel..... Well E36 M3... they picked that ball RIGHT UP and ran with it.
Getyourwheels.com well done
spacecadet said:
So I ended up getting exactly what I wanted.The Cali dealer Forgestar reffered in their email sent me a quote, said 17x8.5 ET40 will fit my application. 6-8 week lead time to produce and 50% deposit to begin the work.... And they're less than $350 per wheel..... Well E36 M3... they picked that ball RIGHT UP and ran with it.
Getyourwheels.com well done
Glad to hear it! I told you, annoying, but not a big deal. Forgestar has a great reputation for a reason.
Nice! Which wheels are you getting?
