Formula 1-2021 Season

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I dislike Max and RB even more than Lewis and Mercedes...

759NRNG said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

759NRNG said:

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

So are you the dedicated focal point for all posts related to F1? My apologies for not paying the appropriate recognition  to those that need to be acknowledged under your astute supervision...............that's Mr. Willis BH late

Do you have to work at being this abrasive, or does it come naturally?

no you are the originator.....willis wink

Where did the phrase "What you talkin bout Willis" come from?

"Whatcha talkin bout Willis" is a popular meme from a very old TV show named Diff'rent Strokes, starring Gary Coleman. As Arnold Jackson, Gary Coleman popularized the catchphrase "Wha'choo talkin' 'bout, Willis?" which is utilized as a meme or reference when the post is not clearly understood.

So yeah, a popular culture catchphrase about confusion from 1978 isn't exactly a personal hit piece man. Why are you so high strung and defensive? Nobody here attacked you and yet you are just flailing at absolutely everyone, including people who didn't even comment towards you.

Wow what a race!

Hamilton is truly the best driver of his era. He was able to deal with the chaotic aggressive behavior of Max. They had a racing incident. Last race I thought not leaving space was clear reason for the penalties. This race both went to use the same mm of track and unfortunately Lewis' car peeled the tire off Max's faster than discount tire tech a minute before closing. But like Button said Hamilton may have made the apex but it didn't look convincing that he would. So, I can accept that despite being clear by the rules Toto presented, Hamilton got a penalty.

If anything I am sure Hamilton knows he will always be blamed for contact with Max. As Max has never hit anyone his whole career per RB. Other drivers , including Lewis are just JEALOUS. Still Hamilton has to race and chose this time to again try to teach Max how to go two wide through a corner. 

His drive back to the front was impressive! Lando and Leclerc  were done regardless of their bad pitstop and engine issues. The MB seemed to have a ridiculous better pace on the hards in Lewis' hands. Bottas, after all may have been better off extending his first stint. 

Streetwiseguy said:

Lewis was a whole lot more polite going into Copps on Charles.

Actually I think he was told how fast Hamilton was and realized he needed to not push his tires over the cliff and lose 2nd to Bottas as well.

Also, it wasn't lost on me that Hamilton made most of his passes into Copse. Making the point that Horner was just straight lying about not making passes into Copse....talking on the track.

Anyone else wonder why all teams have a direct line to call the race director and pitch their views before the dust has settled?.

 I'd change that if I was RD that's for sure:).

 Lewis was as close to fully alongside as can be just before turn in,Max never made it fully left to sweep the entry so his entry was as compromised as Lewis....who clearly lifted and tried to back out but did drift into the middle just that couple inches too far.

 F1 is odd being the premier motorsport but generally allow drivers to block and run other drivers within an hair of a concrete wall at 200mph or completely off the track if the other car is 3mm from being level with them midcorner.

 I don't think it sets good examples for the youngsters learning racecraft.

 But having said that I haven't missed an F1 race in years:) 

In reply to kevlarcorolla :

I think the TV access to it is more the problem. It is a critical open channel for the RD to hear things that may be worth changing the race for safety. It has always been there. It needs to stay off broadcast. I did finally have some nice feeling about Redbull in Baku when RB called the RD to suggest a red flag for safety as the tire went without any sensor indicating anything wrong. Similar to Stroll's crash. 

Oh boy, the Hamilton haters are firing up their keyboards today. I won't comment on how much or little LH was to blame for the crash but I know that if you look back over the long career of Sir Lewis, he tends to race clean and fair. Many F1 pundits have said that he is cleaner in battle than Schumacher or Senna ever were, including Damon Hill who raced them both.  I raced karts for years and there are a couple of factors at play here. #1-if you let your competitors know your weakness, they will exploit it in battle IE-if you back off when they come over on you, they will always come over on you. #2-Other drivers can be unpredictable because of rule #1. Karun Chandock had a post race video where he showed the last few races where Max chopped off Lewis and Lewis backed off. Why wouldn't Max come over even though he saw Lewis there? Lewis has always thrown out the anchors when Max comes over. But Max has only raced against a Lewis that was in a Championship lead and when you're in a Championship lead, you can afford to back off, preserve your position and bank the points. But now, Lewis has been backed into a corner and is on the back foot, he's much more dangerous now and Max learned that today. Leclerc knew this and in the same corner under similar circumstances as the clash with Max, he drove wide rather than assume Lewis was going to just back out of it. Regardless of who you cheer for, let's not suddenly attach phrases like "dirty" or "unable to fight wheel to wheel" on Hamilton because 15 seasons of wheel to wheel battles with Champions like Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg, Raikkonen and Button have shown that Lewis has the skills and is a fair competitor. We are witnessing one of the greatest battles in Formula 1 history

Advan046 said:

I did finally have some nice feeling about Redbull in Baku when RB called the RD to suggest a red flag for safety as the tire went without any sensor indicating anything wrong. Similar to Stroll's crash. 

Perhaps.  OTOH, they were having some kind of engine problem with Perez' car and the red flag period was quite helpful for them to get it to the finish -- am I just being overly cynical? :)

Shamelessly yoinked from youtube comment section:
 

How to win a race:
Step 1 - Crash into your championship rival.
Step 2 - Repair your car under Red Flag.
Step 3 - Take 10s penalty.
Step 4 - Get team orders handed to you
Step 5 - Win a race against a broken Ferrari.
Great win.

I still can't really make my mind up about it:

- Yes, Hamilton was a bit wide. With Leclerc he was on the inside Curb, with Verstappen not.

- On the other hand: Max knew that Lewis had the faster car on the straight. Can you really leave room on the inside, and expect your opponent to give you the corner?

The rules are a bit strange  - Wheelbanging is allowed, as long as no one gets hurt?

One of horners comments is odd in hindsight- he claimed that nobody passes in Copse, right?

But then why did max so agresssively defend down the entire straight?  This wasnt curva grande at Monza, Copse has had many passes there. 
 

Again on the late Perez tire change- that's why Red Bull won't win the constructors- sacrifice team points to take away a single point from a rival. I think Horner will lose the championship for both max and rbr. 

In reply to alfadriver :

I'm pretty sure the RD knew Horner's comment about nobody passes in Copse was BS.  Hamilton wasn't backing off, and Max wasn't clear before he "claimed" the corner and shut the door.  It was a racing incident IMO, I think the stewards gave Hamilton the penalty to appease Horner and Dr. Marko.  Just my .02..

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

The move by max also meant that he knew Lewis could or would or was there. There was no surprise element there. 
Max would have tried the same move had the weekend played out the same but opposite ( including the sprint race and that passing would not happen during the race ). And Horner would then blame Lewis for not allowing room so he deserved to get crashed out. (And later on Sunday, marko would then suggest that Lewis deserved to be in the hospital, to be banned for a race). 

I am a big time Hamilton hater and I cant blame him for that crash, even though I really want to.  I almost hated to see the 10 second penalty handed down because I knew that would just make his inevitable win even more painful. 

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Advan046 said:

I did finally have some nice feeling about Redbull in Baku when RB called the RD to suggest a red flag for safety as the tire went without any sensor indicating anything wrong. Similar to Stroll's crash. 

Perhaps.  OTOH, they were having some kind of engine problem with Perez' car and the red flag period was quite helpful for them to get it to the finish -- am I just being overly cynical? :)

 

 

Why are you trying to take my good vibes away?!?!?!?

I don't want to believe that legitimate safety concerns would be outweighed by redbullness. 

In the end they couldn't fix anything with Perez' power unit. 

EDIT: Thanks codrus for removing my false hope that redbull would do anything other that selfish acts.

In reply to SnowMongoose :

You forgot step 3.5 - Have only remaining threat have engine/software problems.

(I suspect Hamilton would have won regardless but I do enjoy to pile on)

Two faced Horner.

“Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well,” said Horner after the Spanish GP. “He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence,” he added.

Hmm so Horner, you say Max is great because he made a pass that would throw Lewis into the fence........

In reply to Advan046 :

No no no, that's just hard racing. It's totally different!

SnowMongoose said:

Shamelessly yoinked from youtube comment section:
 

How to win a race:
Step 1 - Crash into your championship rival.
Step 2 - Repair your car under Red Flag.
Step 3 - Take 10s penalty.
Step 4 - Get team orders handed to you
Step 5 - Win a race against a broken Ferrari.
Great win.

To me, the problem with that line of thinking is F1 cars are so delicate there is no guarantee whatsoever if you bang your front wheel into another car that it won't put you out as well. Hamilton was VERY lucky. 

Advan046 said:

Two faced Horner.

“Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well,” said Horner after the Spanish GP. “He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence,” he added.

Hmm so Horner, you say Max is great because he made a pass that would throw Lewis into the fence........

 

Forgot that the roles have been reversed, and Lewis backed out.  Horner is such a hypocrite.  

First of all, it's in the past now.  Penalties were handed out, Max was released from the hospital and Hammy was able to celebrate his 8th win on his home track.  I know I'm biased towards Hamilton over Verstappen.  I will defend against the comments that Hamilton did it on purpose, though.  Someone on reddit compiled the reactions of drivers/commentators/principles along with potential bias of those that I thought was interesting, however.  Everyone can play armchair/Monday morning driver, but to me, the folks with careers in F1 seem to be the best judges.

This is a summary of the drivers, team principals and commentators who have been vocal enough to voice their opinion on the collision between Hamilton and Max on Sunday. Do let me know if I‘ve missed any or made any errors.

Drivers (past and present)

• Daniel Ricciardo: Lewis error (unintentional)
• Mark Webber: (bias against RB) Lewis error (unintentional)
• Alex Albon (bias RB): unclear but implied neither at fault?
• Charles Leclerc: Racing incident
• Jolyon Palmer: Racing incident
• Fernando Alonso: Racing incident
• David Coulthard (bias RB): Lewis error (unintentional)
• Martin Brundle: Racing incident
• Jenson Button: Lewis error (unintentional)
• Karun Chandhok: Racing incident

Non-drivers

• Will Buxton: Racing incident
• Otmar Szafnauer (bias Merc): Racing incident
• Lawrence Barretto: Max error (unintentional)

Basically irrelevant (bias...) :)

• Toto Wolff: Racing incident
• Christian Horner: Penalty inappropriate, Lewis error (intentional)
• Lewis Hamilton: Max error (unintentional)
• Helmut Marko: Penalty inappropriate, Lewis error (intentional)

I’ve only written bias for the the parties that are currently in an official working relationship with the team involved.

Obviously many more things have to be taken into account when considering bias such as past conflicts between the above drivers and Lewis/Max, friendships between the above drivers and Lewis/Max, a tendency for drivers to label things as racing incidents to avoid getting involved and for the Brits to support British drivers but to avoid over-generalizing, I’ll just leave that to your consideration.

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis :

I tend to agree. I can't see any F1 driver banging wheels on purpose. It's a dice roll where snake-eyes comes up all too often. The cars just aren't built for that.

In reply to rob_lewis :

IMHO, at this point, I think RB thinking that it was intentional is pretty childish.  It could be worse, given some of the responses against Hamilton- but for now, I'll just keep it as childish.  The concept that Hamilton is somehow jealous of Verstappen is just as childish- lets be reasonable here- Hamilton is the most successful driver in F1 history.  Why in the world would he be jealous of Verstappen in any way, shape, or form?  To keep harping on that seems like a weak attempt to get into Hamilton's head.

And up until now, it's been Hamilton who has always backed out to avoid collision, but somehow now when he does not- he's still at blame and is looked down on.  Give me a break Horner/Marko.  And Max- you get upset that Hamilton celebrated???  Seriously?  I can't see you being somehow gracious is the roles were reversed.

Lastly- for months now, there has been words to fan the flame of this rivalry- pretty much all of them coming from Red Bull.  And 90% of the words you hear now are from Red Bull.  Or should it be Red BullE36 M3?  Horner- you and Marko seem to only 100% support a driver who is a bully on track and expects the other guy to back down- Vettel and Max.  When drivers don't do that, you pull support- Webber and Couthard, or just as bad- you blame your choice of second driver for car problems- Albon and Gasley.  And now, you act like a child to take a point from Hamilton as opposed to get team points, treating Perez like that.

The more anyone from Red BullE36 M3 opens their mouth, the more I think it was their intention to force Hamilton into this position all year long.

In reply to rob_lewis :

I wonder if they both crashed out if this would have been less of a big deal. 

I found it funny they nobody cared that Vettel spun, can you imagine if he was still at Ferrari....

In reply to trigun7469 :

Absolutely would be a moot point and probably completely a racing incident or more like Nico and Lewis in Spain.

Adjacent to this is that without the red flag Lewis would not have been able to fix his car and continue.