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alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/26/21 9:57 a.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
kevlarcorolla said:

In reply to New York Nick :

With the over dramatization of the whole thing from RB they likely at least doubled the actual cost for added effect.

I doubt. A steering wheel is $50k+, front wing $30k+, etc. 

To a certain extent these suffer from the same "million dollar toilet seat" problem that military hardware does.  If you have something that costs a lot to design and then only produce small number of units, amortizing the design cost makes the individual units look quite expensive.

For example, imagine that you spend $190K designing a steering wheel, with a $2500 per-unit cost and then make 4.  That would get a cost of $50K per wheel, but if you wanted to make another one to replace one that had been damaged it would only cost you $2500.  I suspect that's true of a lot of the parts on an F1 car.

Add to that the parts that are constantly being changed- wings, floors, etc- that would already be baked into the budget.  

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/27/21 10:00 a.m.

I am interested to see where this goes. I hope it goes with Christian and his crew crying all the way back to Milton Keynes.

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-lodge-request-for-fia-to-review-hamilton-penalty-following.1BND9fIw9rWN5GynnHVVo4.html

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
7/27/21 10:37 a.m.

I would like to know what 'new' information they think that they have. 

 

Well I think this is, if anything, an effort to move MB off a stable position. If they can get into any engineer's heads or even into Hamilton's then maybe their doomed to failure review will be "successful" 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/27/21 11:20 a.m.

They can lodge all the protests they want. Doesn't mean the FIA needs to pay any attention. Maybe they want to go back to the scrappy underdog image, it was more fun. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/27/21 11:40 a.m.
Advan046 said:

I would like to know what 'new' information they think that they have. 

 

Well I think this is, if anything, an effort to move MB off a stable position. If they can get into any engineer's heads or even into Hamilton's then maybe their doomed to failure review will be "successful" 

At the same time, Red Bull is being obsessed with this incident- so they have a much higher risk of being off a stable and focused position- as I see it.  The more they talk about it, the more Horner will think about it for the "next" corner.  And the costs that they are complaining about- maybe Max will consider the next time he wants to cut someone off- as maybe if he's wrong, it will cost the team millions that should be spent someplace else.

For me, as a Hamilton fan, I encourage all of this obsession and distraction for Red Bull.

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/27/21 11:57 a.m.
alfadriver said:
Advan046 said:

I would like to know what 'new' information they think that they have. 

 

Well I think this is, if anything, an effort to move MB off a stable position. If they can get into any engineer's heads or even into Hamilton's then maybe their doomed to failure review will be "successful" 

At the same time, Red Bull is being obsessed with this incident- so they have a much higher risk of being off a stable and focused position- as I see it.  The more they talk about it, the more Horner will think about it for the "next" corner.  And the costs that they are complaining about- maybe Max will consider the next time he wants to cut someone off- as maybe if he's wrong, it will cost the team millions that should be spent someplace else.

For me, as a Hamilton fan, I encourage all of this obsession and distraction for Red Bull.

That's the whole thing right there, if someone cuts you off is it your fault if you hit them?  If you are not clear of the car you are passing (or defending against), then is the corner "yours".  Red Bull is contesting this because IMO it's been an integral part of Max's driving style, you either back off and give him the corner or you hit him as he cuts in front of you.  I think it's been mentioned in this thread previously, Hamilton has backed off in the past, this time not so much.  With the driver's and constructor's points situation this year it's a big deal going forward.  Especially if Mercedes has got it's act together. 

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
7/27/21 12:56 p.m.

I thought this animation was useful.

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/27/21 2:11 p.m.

I see this all the time in iRacing, "I HAVE TO WIN ON THE FIRST LAP." Instead of leaving both cars some room to continue. 

To finish first, you must first finish. 

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
7/27/21 11:09 p.m.

I am really surprised that Red Bull has asked for the FIA to take another look at the clash between Max and Lewis. I have watched or heard an analysis (with video and telemetry) from easily a dozen experts and the vast majority fall into the "10 second penalty was appropriate" or "too much". Not one person suggested the punishment didn't go far enough. Max has pulled similar moves dozens of times but they have usually resulted in nothing because the other drivers have backed off (like Lewis has done time after time) or they have been deemed "a racing incident". I have held no animosity towards Max or RB (and actually have signed RB merch to prove it) but this seems so petty that I may have to rethink some things.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/28/21 3:16 a.m.
z31maniac said:

I see this all the time in iRacing, "I HAVE TO WIN ON THE FIRST LAP." Instead of leaving both cars some room to continue. 

This is a bit more than that, and it's F1, not Le Mans.  There aren't 24 hours of racing and 30 pit stops ahead of them, taking (or holding) the lead on that first lap was very important to winning that race.  Passing is hard, controlling the race pace is important, and those two drivers are likely to be the only ones in the hunt for the 2021 championship.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/28/21 10:26 a.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Yes, obviously it was a dramatic oversimplification. But the second stands. 

"To finish first, you must first finish."

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/28/21 10:54 a.m.
z31maniac said:

"To finish first, you must first finish."

Again, remember that finishing first in the individual races is not the primary goal.  They're aiming for the season championship and winning that championship requires a strategy that looks at the season as a whole, not merely at individual races.  Sometimes you can improve your overall chances in the season by being willing to risk a DNF at a particular round, especially when it comes to these mental games about which driver yields to which other driver when going through a corner.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
7/28/21 11:32 a.m.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

 I agree with your being cutoff  comment.

In our series it mandates the overtaking driver has to do so safely,how am I responsible as the overtaker if the overtaken turns in and I can't avoid the contact?.

 It has happened to me actually,was a lovely 100mph spin with broken wheels,bent suspension and 4 new but flat spotted and junk tires.

 

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/29/21 1:56 p.m.

Well, so much for that FIA rejects Red Bull

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/29/21 2:06 p.m.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Red Bull wasted a filming day having Albon drive the line that Hamilton took for this hearing.  huh.  

I would think watching Hamilton's path on it's own would be odd without the context of Verstappen next to him- leaving him little space to the wall. 

But it's nice that Red Bull won't let this die.  :)

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/29/21 2:20 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

I wonder what those unnamed allegations Red Bull made were.   I assumed they had some proof of engine mapping changes made by Mercedes during the race weekend or something, which would definetely be a no-no.  I imagine they mentioned something of that nature but had no proof, either at the time or now.  Fascinating, if they are off the pace this weekend i'm sure you can point the finger at these shenanigans as the cause. 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/29/21 2:24 p.m.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

I wonder what those unnamed allegations Red Bull made were.  

I have read that that RBR was claiming Hamilton hit Verstappen on purpose.

 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/29/21 2:29 p.m.
alfadriver said:

But it's nice that Red Bull won't let this die.  :)

And Max is still butthurt about Lewis celebrating after the race, too.

I want to root for Max and Red Bull this year. I'm tired of watching one team and one guy dominate, and Red Bull is a customer of my company. But the last two weeks have not made it easy...

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
7/29/21 3:11 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

I wonder what those unnamed allegations Red Bull made were.  

I have read that that RBR was claiming Hamilton hit Verstappen on purpose.

 

Thats a hard sell,Lewis turned away from Max the entire time which is what Max did intially when Lewis had his wing at his front wheel.

Then decided to go full Shumacher and turn in hard anyways:(

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
7/29/21 5:04 p.m.

Speculating as to RBs motive tells me they aren't near as confident about there season as the results would have us believe. 

The one thing I will ding Verstappen for is the following corner was a left hander; he needed only to stay parallel with Hamilton to keep the advantage.  Given the fact that he was sitting on something like a 33 point lead, just makes it seem like a silly risk to me.

 

I'm glad the FIA bounced the protest; now we can just get on with it.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/29/21 5:14 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

I wonder what those unnamed allegations Red Bull made were.  

I have read that that RBR was claiming Hamilton hit Verstappen on purpose.

 

So he planned that understeer, then.  Ok....

Red BullE36 M3 somehow does not even recognize that Hamilton backed out.  Unless that was planned, too- so that the hit perfectly hit max without real damage to the Mercedes.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/29/21 5:29 p.m.

I'm so sick of hearing Marko, Horner and Co. whine now that they aren't the dominate team.

I liked RBR when one of my favorite drivers was there, Mark Webbaahh. But they can pound sand.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/29/21 5:49 p.m.

Just watched the F1 Weekend warmup- man, it REALLY sounds like George will be a Mercedes driver next year.  And speculation is that Bottas *might* replace Kimi.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/29/21 8:10 p.m.

Seems to me that sending Bottas back to Williams would benefit that team. It would give them a driver with experience of the fastest car on the grid and enough speed to keep Lewis honest on Saturday. He'd drag them up the grid and they'd probably build a faster car at the same time. He might be expensive now, though. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
7/29/21 8:21 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I really like Bottas but have to admit I'd be looking to swap him with Russel in the next few races. Even doing it for a two races might be worthwhile just to see what's what.

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