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triumph7
triumph7 HalfDork
7/29/21 8:57 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I really like Bottas but have to admit I'd be looking to swap him with Russel in the next few races. Even doing it for a two races might be worthwhile just to see what's what.

I'm not sure they want somebody that will show up Hamilton

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
7/29/21 9:22 p.m.
alfadriver said:

Just watched the F1 Weekend warmup- man, it REALLY sounds like George will be a Mercedes driver next year.  And speculation is that Bottas *might* replace Kimi.

Guess they got over the million pounds or so George cost them when he speared Bottas then blamed him for the collision.:)

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/29/21 9:23 p.m.
triumph7 said:
Tom1200 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I really like Bottas but have to admit I'd be looking to swap him with Russel in the next few races. Even doing it for a two races might be worthwhile just to see what's what.

I'm not sure they want somebody that will show up Hamilton

I really don't think there's very much risk of that.

And Lewis didn't hit Max on purpose, he just didn't get out of the way as aggressively as he has in the past.  And that is completely fine as far as I'm concerned.  He has started changing the terms of the partnership.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/29/21 10:33 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

I really don't think there's very much risk of that.

And Lewis didn't hit Max on purpose, he just didn't get out of the way as aggressively as he has in the past.  And that is completely fine as far as I'm concerned.  He has started changing the terms of the partnership.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Russell and Hamilton fare in the same car against each other!

And yeah, the only people who claim to think that Hamilton did it on purpose are random Verstappen fans/Hamilton haters on the Internet and RBR.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/30/21 7:01 a.m.

Before I saw the weekend warmup, I saw some speculation on Bottas, that he does not want to go to Williams and be at the back of the grid.  And while that makes sense WRT the previous seasons, it does not for next season.  As much as I respect Sauber, the new Williams has more resources, and is more likely to have a better brand new car.

It's all speculation until papers are signed and announcements are made.

I am really looking forward to next season, though.  Regardless of the team shuffle, the brand new cars really resets the field.

Ignoring Brawn, Red Bull took the 2009 changes, Mercedes took the 2014 changes- who is next?

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/30/21 8:05 a.m.

I'm listening to FP2 and the announcer is roasting Red Bull for having Albon go run that test. If anyone wants to hear it it's from about 58 minutes to 56 minutes. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/30/21 11:32 a.m.

I shouldn't feel bad for Valteri.  He has a great ride, for a great team, in a great car, and he's won more races than a whole lot of people ever will.

But he's not as fast as Lewis, eventually he will lose his ride,  maybe this year, and I will feel bad that he hasn't been able to retire to Indycar or DTM or whatever on his own terms.

But, I often feel bad for drivers that don't have the success they want.  And, it's also why I feel so good for guys like Jensen Button and Martin Truex.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/30/21 11:40 a.m.

Valtteri's biggest problem is that his teammate is Lewis Hamilton, and that Lewis responds to pressure by going faster. Bottas provided that pressure for a few years and it was fairly close between the two Mercs. This year, it's Max that's providing the pressure and Lewis has stepped it up again - leaving poor Bottas in the dust. He's still above average on the grid, his time at Williams showed that. But being above average looks bad when you're in the same car as the most successful driver in the sport.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/30/21 11:44 a.m.

Mika Hakkinen with an interesting take on why Bottas should stay with Mercedes next year. Basically, now is not the time to rock the boat.

However, with brand new, radically changed cars coming for 2022, Hakkinen feels that Mercedes need the positive communication and atmosphere that the Hamilton/Bottas partnership brings to get the most out of these new regulations.

“Mercedes knows better than anyone what can happen when you have two drivers fighting each other in a way which can be destructive. Part of Valtteri’s job since he joined them was to work beside Lewis, push as hard as possible, but keep the communication flowing.

“Generating a positive atmosphere in the team and pulling in the same direction is a vital quality. It’s important when you are the dominant team, but becomes critical when you have tough competition or, as will happen in 2022, an entirely new set of regulations arrive.

 

wae
wae UberDork
7/31/21 9:15 a.m.

I know all's fair in love and war, but I would have much preferred to see a heads-up Q3 battle instead of that.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 9:20 a.m.

In reply to wae :

As I see it, Red BullE36 M3 has some mental issues. First, putting Max out on softs in Q2?  That wasn't needed, and very much changed the game tomorrow. 
 

Then max could not match his own q2 time in q3. 
 

Finally, not smart to wait that long on this track, and let Mercedes dictate the end of the session. 
 

I can imagine that Horner will step up the rhetoric today. And overthink tomorrow. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/31/21 9:23 a.m.

Mercedes played that qualy perfectly, sending Hamilton out last in Q2 on softs just to cover and then back out to start on mediums and then getting the jump on RB for the final run in Q3. Max fans are pissed but RB chose to go out last for Q3. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/31/21 9:45 a.m.

So, then, where cometh the Merc speed?  Carbon shotgun spraying little winglets at the car?  This week's track?  Temperature? Although that used to harm Merc more.  Lewis is occupying critical brain space in the Red Bull head?

I'm pretty sure I figured early in the season that Merc was going to fight back through the season, but I was starting to doubt.

AaronT
AaronT Reader
7/31/21 10:01 a.m.

It would appear that RBR are living rent free in the heads of Merc/Lewis at this point.

AaronT
AaronT Reader
7/31/21 10:03 a.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to wae :

As I see it, Red BullE36 M3 has some mental issues. First, putting Max out on softs in Q2?  That wasn't needed, and very much changed the game tomorrow. 
 

Then max could not match his own q2 time in q3. 
 

Finally, not smart to wait that long on this track, and let Mercedes dictate the end of the session. 
 

I can imagine that Horner will step up the rhetoric today. And overthink tomorrow. 

Horner has already stated that they released the cars too late and that it was an error to do so...

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/31/21 10:28 a.m.
AaronT said:

It would appear that RBR are living rent free in the heads of Merc/Lewis at this point.

I think you have that backwards.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/31/21 10:32 a.m.
AaronT said:

It would appear that RBR are living rent free in the heads of Merc/Lewis at this point.

I don't think rent free, or without reason.  Lewis has been able to wander off into the championship  lead for a long time.  Now, he has to exert a certain amount of effort to keep Max back, and he seems to be doing a reasonable job of it.  

To ignore your competitor is foolish, particularly when they are faster.

AaronT
AaronT Reader
7/31/21 10:32 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

RBR wasn't out there berkeleying around with berkeleying Mercedes quali 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
7/31/21 10:33 a.m.

Lewis is getting booed post quali.  I bet he will go to his room and have a little cry.

Not.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 10:54 a.m.

In reply to AaronT :

That's Mercedes making sure they're inside RBR's heads.

Lewis has had to fight for the championship before. It wasn't all that long ago (2018) that Vettel was leading the championship in a Ferrari. And, I'd forgotten this, but remember when Vettel very deliberately rammed into Lewis under the safety car? Guess what the penalty was? 10 seconds. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 10:56 a.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

A bunch of very dedicated engineers in a good team culture? Remember, only Mercedes knows how to win a championship with a hybrid engine. And top teams attract top talent. It's interesting to see what they do when they're up against the wall. In this case, it seems to be raise the game. 

AaronT
AaronT Reader
7/31/21 11:13 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

In reply to AaronT :

That's Mercedes making sure they're inside RBR's heads.

if you spend time making sure you're inside someone else's head, they are already in your head. 
 

But really what we're seeing on this this is that bias and perspective are both a helluva drug and people see what they want.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
7/31/21 11:14 a.m.

In reply to AaronT :

I think you stated you are a Max fan so I understand your perception.  What I saw was a mistake by MB and RBR both waited 10-30 seconds too late for their second runs in Q3. Hamilton was stuck behind a train of cars. The TV coverage tried to make is seem like Hamilton was all alone holding up Max. But if you watch the qualifying again you will see Bottas not far ahead of Lewis and a car not far ahead of Bottas. 

While it would have been smart, as RBR already admitted, to send their drivers out earlier they didn't. Thus they paid the price. 

Even Lewis had to scramble the last corner and even made a mistake into it just to make the lights to start his lap. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 12:38 p.m.

If you think teasing someone is the same as being teased, you're right. Keeping an opponent off balance is not a sign of weakness on your part, though. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/31/21 1:03 p.m.

I still think Red Bull made the first mistake by letting max finish a lap in q2 on the soft tires. And it didn't get better in q3. 

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