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dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 10:53 a.m.

About the only way I can see Max getting a penalty if if they decide that his actions put Hamilton in physical danger.  I don't see them doing that as it is a what if situation but if they want to send a message they could.  Forgetting about the Max Lewis drama F1 dodged a big bullet with that crash. A headless driver on world TV is not good PR. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 11:14 a.m.

Not just any driver, either.

They said after the Silverstone crash that the results of the action were not taken into account when assigning penalties. I assume the same would apply here. I suspect the judgement will be "you both were at some fault, you both paid the price, let's carry on".

There will be many cries of "unfair!" no matter what.

johndej
johndej Dork
9/12/21 11:55 a.m.

3 place grid penalty for Max.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 11:56 a.m.

They may regret that they said that. At some point drivers are going to have to start thinking about the results of there actions.  

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 12:03 p.m.
johndej said:

3 place grid penalty for Max.

I don't like Max. I am a Mercedes fan but they really need to knock them both down a couple pegs as a reality check for both of them. So far they have only hurt each other but it is just a matter of time before they take a bunch of others out with them. That is what F1 needs to put a stop to. 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 12:05 p.m.

My only problem is I have raced wheel to wheel and the race car driver me would have done the exact same thing Max did. 
 

I mean he still was an idiot but I would have also been an idiot. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 12:15 p.m.

As a race car driver, in Max's position, I would have bailed.  I'm also not young and dumb anymore, either, plus I have to pay for my.own parts.

 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 12:17 p.m.

Well, maybe still dumb.

AaronT
AaronT Reader
9/12/21 12:23 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

I'm pretty sure Bernie wrote something into the rule book before leaving about how Max was entitled to all corners. 

So here's a thing - I've said before that it's dumb that these cars are open wheel. They'd be better in just about every way if they had full bodies like an LMP- faster, able to pass, safer. If they did, this accident wouldn't have been much more than a bit of paint trading, possibly with Hamilton parked in the gravel. And there have been full bodied F1 cars before. Let's see a REAL rule shakeup.

Agree. Closed wheel design would allow for closer racing.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 12:24 p.m.

And now, since I feel really sorry for the attention not paid to Danny, Lando and the rest of the Mcmerc people, good berkeleying weekend, boys.  There was zero fluke in that win.  Good quali, improved in the sprint, improved in the race.  Enough pace for both to make a shot at fastest lap at the end of the race.  No team mate squabble, even though Lando is, I'm sure, pissed as hell that it wasn't him in P1.  

I really think the only possibility, other than some freak safety car or such, was if Lewis had enough pace on the hards to go 15 laps longer, then come out on softs.  Other than that, it was Danny's race.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 12:30 p.m.
AaronT said:
Keith Tanner said:

I'm pretty sure Bernie wrote something into the rule book before leaving about how Max was entitled to all corners. 

So here's a thing - I've said before that it's dumb that these cars are open wheel. They'd be better in just about every way if they had full bodies like an LMP- faster, able to pass, safer. If they did, this accident wouldn't have been much more than a bit of paint trading, possibly with Hamilton parked in the gravel. And there have been full bodied F1 cars before. Let's see a REAL rule shakeup.

Agree. Closed wheel design would allow for closer racing.

Hard no.  There are already all sorts of closed wheel series that nobody cares about.  Why make another?

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/12/21 12:42 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

And now, since I feel really sorry for the attention not paid to Danny, Lando and the rest of the Mcmerc people, good berkeleying weekend, boys.  There was zero fluke in that win.  Good quali, improved in the sprint, improved in the race.  Enough pace for both to make a shot at fastest lap at the end of the race.  No team mate squabble, even though Lando is, I'm sure, pissed as hell that it wasn't him in P1.  

I really think the only possibility, other than some freak safety car or such, was if Lewis had enough pace on the hards to go 15 laps longer, then come out on softs.  Other than that, it was Danny's race.

Yup, Ricciardo and McLaren won that race on merit.  He passed three cars in two starts (Hamilton and Norris in the sprint, Verstappen in the race), stayed in front, and the timing was saying that he would have kept that lead even if Verstappen's stop hadn't gone long.  Well done.

 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/12/21 12:42 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:
AaronT said:
Keith Tanner said:

I'm pretty sure Bernie wrote something into the rule book before leaving about how Max was entitled to all corners. 

So here's a thing - I've said before that it's dumb that these cars are open wheel. They'd be better in just about every way if they had full bodies like an LMP- faster, able to pass, safer. If they did, this accident wouldn't have been much more than a bit of paint trading, possibly with Hamilton parked in the gravel. And there have been full bodied F1 cars before. Let's see a REAL rule shakeup.

Agree. Closed wheel design would allow for closer racing.

Hard no.  There are already all sorts of closed wheel series that nobody cares about.  Why make another?

Agreed.  F1 is defined as open wheel with all that that entails.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 1:10 p.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

It's only defined as open wheel NOW because, well, because that's how it's defined in recent history. And there is historical precedent for closed bodies. There's no reason for it and it's technically inferior. Give us prototype sprint races with lots of close racing and people will forget about how only pure race cars are aerodynamic nightmares, anything is is plebeian. 

We don't watch F1 because their wheels are open. But we sure miss out on some good racing because of it. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 1:23 p.m.
dean1484 said:
johndej said:

3 place grid penalty for Max.

I don't like Max. I am a Mercedes fan but they really need to knock them both down a couple pegs as a reality check for both of them. So far they have only hurt each other but it is just a matter of time before they take a bunch of others out with them. That is what F1 needs to put a stop to. 

The stewards said pretty clearly that there was only one driver at fault here. Max has expected everyone else to give way since he started and now that it's all on the line, he's discovering that other drivers do not always automatically give up the corner. He's always been the biggest proponent of "hard racing" combined with a persecution complex ("he turned into me!!!"), this is what he has brought about.

I think that corner design takes a lot of the blame, though. It's just too tight and in the wrong place. Lose the chicane and the race probably would have been a lot more interesting. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 1:38 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
Streetwiseguy said:

And now, since I feel really sorry for the attention not paid to Danny, Lando and the rest of the Mcmerc people, good berkeleying weekend, boys.  There was zero fluke in that win.  Good quali, improved in the sprint, improved in the race.  Enough pace for both to make a shot at fastest lap at the end of the race.  No team mate squabble, even though Lando is, I'm sure, pissed as hell that it wasn't him in P1.  

I really think the only possibility, other than some freak safety car or such, was if Lewis had enough pace on the hards to go 15 laps longer, then come out on softs.  Other than that, it was Danny's race.

Yup, Ricciardo and McLaren won that race on merit.  He passed three cars in two starts (Hamilton and Norris in the sprint, Verstappen in the race), stayed in front, and the timing was saying that he would have kept that lead even if Verstappen's stop hadn't gone long.  Well done.

 

I was coming back to post this same idea- heck of a weekend for Daniel and McLaren!  Two races with amazing starts, and took advantage of the format to take the weekend.  And I fully agree about him holding the lead even if red bull stopped Max nominally.  

This has been a long time coming for that team, and they deserved this win.  And the attention, at this point, too.

Should make for a even more fun to the end of the season- if McLaren can really mess with the battle between Red Bull and Mercedes.

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
9/12/21 1:53 p.m.

Super exciting race - glad to see the reat of the field get some well deserved attention includin Botas.  I'd have called the Merc Bull situationa racing incident that hurt them both equally thus no penalty.  

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/12/21 1:57 p.m.

It's official. 3 place grid penalty for Max. 
 

F1 story

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 2:13 p.m.
AaronT said:
Keith Tanner said:

I'm pretty sure Bernie wrote something into the rule book before leaving about how Max was entitled to all corners. 

So here's a thing - I've said before that it's dumb that these cars are open wheel. They'd be better in just about every way if they had full bodies like an LMP- faster, able to pass, safer. If they did, this accident wouldn't have been much more than a bit of paint trading, possibly with Hamilton parked in the gravel. And there have been full bodied F1 cars before. Let's see a REAL rule shakeup.

Agree. Closed wheel design would allow for closer racing.

You know what else would work?  Clean driving.  Shocking, I know.  

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 2:33 p.m.

So, if Valteri had been able to keep up for the whole season, like getting his normal podium finishes all year, he would probably be leading the points, what with Lewis and Max stepping on their own (and each others) cranks all year.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 3:10 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
dean1484 said:
johndej said:

3 place grid penalty for Max.

I don't like Max. I am a Mercedes fan but they really need to knock them both down a couple pegs as a reality check for both of them. So far they have only hurt each other but it is just a matter of time before they take a bunch of others out with them. That is what F1 needs to put a stop to. 

The stewards said pretty clearly that there was only one driver at fault here. Max has expected everyone else to give way since he started and now that it's all on the line, he's discovering that other drivers do not always automatically give up the corner. He's always been the biggest proponent of "hard racing" combined with a persecution complex ("he turned into me!!!"), this is what he has brought about.

I think that corner design takes a lot of the blame, though. It's just too tight and in the wrong place. Lose the chicane and the race probably would have been a lot more interesting. 

I posted that before I knew about the penalty. I am trying to be objective but the Merc fanboy in me is really liking there decision.  
 

Max wanting hard racing but also saying everyone is turning down on him is what I have found really annoying.   Maybe it really is that Max drives like an idiot and he is being taught a lesson.  
 

BTW. How many points do you need to get in a 12 month period to be sat down for a race?  

JimS
JimS Reader
9/12/21 4:17 p.m.

Already plenty of closed-wheel racing to watch. I love the looks of open-wheel race cars. Formula V and Formula Ford prove you can have good, close open wheel racing. Eliminate most aero. 

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/12/21 5:13 p.m.

Awesome pic that Merc posted on LinkedIn. 
 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 5:25 p.m.

So Lewis is using his head?  wink

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 5:35 p.m.

If you want to make turn one at Monza seem sane, go find turn one, lap one at Portland today.  There was at least half a dozen guys that couldn't have made that corner with 8 tires.  Grosjean would have needed a dozen tires at least.

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