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accordionfolder
accordionfolder SuperDork
9/12/21 5:36 p.m.

In reply to New York Nick :

That's really scary when you consider what hans and racing harness are trying to do - keep your head from moving. Just glad he's ok.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/12/21 5:39 p.m.

I'm starting to like the halo more now.  Grosjean, and that would have been a broken neck for Lewis, no doubt.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
9/12/21 6:20 p.m.

So on a different note: WTF ESPN with the abrupt  commercial cut aways? 

 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 6:50 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

So on a different note: WTF ESPN with the abrupt  commercial cut aways? 

 

Rebroadcast of the race?  

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose SuperDork
9/12/21 7:04 p.m.

Too bad if their roles were reversed there's no *way* Hamilton gets that penalty.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 7:06 p.m.

In reply to SnowMongoose :

Unlike Silverstone :) Lewis has been given far more penalties than Max has over the past year. He is definitely not protected. In fact, this is the first time Max has picked up any points on his license in 12 months. 

So the "Hamilton gets special treatment" position is a little hard to defend. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 7:16 p.m.
SnowMongoose said:

Too bad if their roles were reversed there's no *way* Hamilton gets that penalty.

Seeing Hamilton get a penalty when Max turned in on him when they were even, yea, I don't buy that.  It's about time Max's bullying got the attention of officials.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
9/12/21 7:34 p.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

No I recorded live the broadcast.

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
9/12/21 8:47 p.m.

Lewis has been doing a great job avoiding contact with rivals and Max knows this and was taking advantage so now Lewis is not giving it up so much, and Max is going to have to start respecting Lewis's space. We will see more of this before we we see less and honestly, we should all be excited to witness the battle between these two great talents, especially if we're too young to have seen Hunt/Lauda or Prost/Senna when it was happening

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/12/21 9:53 p.m.

Can we stop talking about the guy that nobody likes and the guy that everybody hates and celebrate a flipping HONEY BADGER WIN!! An earned one at that! Shooey! Shooey!

McLaren with a 1-2 on performance, too!

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/12/21 10:29 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

It's only defined as open wheel NOW because, well, because that's how it's defined in recent history. And there is historical precedent for closed bodies. There's no reason for it and it's technically inferior. Give us prototype sprint races with lots of close racing and people will forget about how only pure race cars are aerodynamic nightmares, anything is is plebeian. 

We don't watch F1 because their wheels are open. But we sure miss out on some good racing because of it. 

If by "recent history" you mean the last 70 years?  "Formula One" (TM) was started in 1950 and has always been open wheel.  There were a few closed-wheel "Grand Prix cars" before WW2 in the late 30s, but that was not called "Formula One".  In modern terminology "formula car" means open wheels, cars that are built in a similar fashion but have full bodies are "sports racers" or "prototypes".  Being open wheel is an intrinsic part of the brand and that's not something you change lightly.

 

racerfink
racerfink UltraDork
9/13/21 12:19 a.m.

Having just watched the ‘highlights’ on youtube, I can see why they gave Crashtappen a penalty.

 

Jim Pettengill
Jim Pettengill HalfDork
9/13/21 12:21 a.m.

Mercedes ran fully enclosed F1 cars a few times in the mid 1950s at high speed circuits in the Fangio - Moss days.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
9/13/21 12:25 a.m.

My favorite team gets a 1-2. Good job Daniel and Lando! Maybe the only win this season but still well earned hard push from both of them. That pass by Lando on Leclerc was fun!

Regarding the crash, well I saw it the same as the stewards. Many times I have seen the guy make it out the pits just ahead of their rival and the rival races hard but not stupid. Lewis left room in the braking zone and Max could have tried an over under and got him to the second chicane or let Lewis burn up his mediums trying to pass the McLarens but Max prefers car to car contact over racing any day. He never seemed to heed Hamilton's wisdom that day in Brazil when Max decided to battle Ocon when Ocon was getting his lap back. Lost a win for what Max? Hamilton is almost counting on Max throwing away the championship. 

Finally, it was sickening watching Max walk away from his car on top of another without at least doing a quick check of the other driver...

Russell in the points again!

 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/13/21 6:05 a.m.

LOL- the crash will be on GMA this morning- the show just started, and they noted how Hamilton's life was saved by the halo.  Pretty funny for ABC to pay attention when there's a crash.

Back to reality- like I posted previously, it will be interesting to see if McLaren can keep sticking their nose into the top two battle for the rest of the season.   The Ferrari-McLaren battle goes back and forth based on the track, but when McLaren is on, they seem slightly closer to the top two than Ferrari is on "their" tracks.  I may not be a Ferrari fan, but it would be just as fun if both teams can put their noses into the race, and really mess with the top two driver's results.

Hard to justify making more improvements, though- so close to the end of this car era.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/13/21 6:59 a.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to dean1484 :

No I recorded live the broadcast.

I didn't have any commercials.  Pretty sure ESPN doesn't put commercials in the live showing of f1.

 

That's weird!

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
9/13/21 7:13 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:
Tom1200 said:

In reply to dean1484 :

No I recorded live the broadcast.

I didn't have any commercials.  Pretty sure ESPN doesn't put commercials in the live showing of f1.

 

That's weird!

I have commercial free coverage of the race but ESPN randomly ends coverage abruptly. What sucks is often it is for rerun programming, not even another live event. Just some talking head shows. 

AaronT
AaronT Reader
9/13/21 7:57 a.m.
Advan046 said:

Finally, it was sickening watching Max walk away from his car on top of another without at least doing a quick check of the other driver...

It was audibly and visually obvious that Lewis was trying to reverse out from under Max' car, the commentators made note of the fact Lewis was trying to move his car and rejoin the race, and the broadcast played the audio of Bono telling Lewis to turn the car off. 

Are you suggesting that Max should have walked up to a live Formula 1 car that was trying to move while it had another car sitting on top of it? What if Lewis were successful in moving the car while Max was under the RB or was in the path of the exposed wheels and wings? 

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/13/21 8:10 a.m.

In reply to AaronT :

He didn't seem to concerned about his safety in that situation when he walked behind the car that was trying to reverse out. 

I've said it before I am not a Max fan so it is hard to be objective, but Seb saw a bad accident he had nothing to do with and pulled over to check on his competitor. Max was in (caused) a pretty severe wreck and didn't even go look at the other guy. Without a halo this would have been to F1 as the Earnhardt crash was to NASCAR. At least Ken Schrader ran to the car to check on Dale.

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
9/13/21 8:16 a.m.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

Can we stop talking about the guy that nobody likes and the guy that everybody hates and celebrate a flipping HONEY BADGER WIN!! An earned one at that! Shooey! Shooey!

McLaren with a 1-2 on performance, too!

Love that they got both Zach and Lando to do a Shoey.  Lando looked like he was going to ralf.

 

 

AaronT
AaronT Reader
9/13/21 8:25 a.m.

In reply to New York Nick :

This just defies all logic: How do you check if a driver is okay while that driver is trying to get his car back in the race?

steronz
steronz Reader
9/13/21 8:26 a.m.

+1 for being tired of the title fight being muddied by these constant collisions.

I've only been watching F1 for about 8 years now, but I feel like I know less about the "racing room" rules now than I did when I knew nothing about F1.  For most of that time, running someone off the track on corner exit was perfectly peachy (unless it wasn't).  Then in Austria (?) with Perez and Leclerc, the FIA decided that you couldn't actually run people off the track on corner exit.  And you need to give drivers racing room, which is 1 car width (and not a centimeter more, evidently) but only if they're "substantially alongside".  It's all clear as mud.

I think "racing incident" has lost all meaning.  To me, a racing incident would be if someone attempts a move, and the very nature of the move means that both cars are on the absolute ragged edge and any minor mistake could result in a collision.  For instance, Hamilton sending it up the inside of Verstappen at Silverstone.  He was deemed to be at fault, but that was a racing incident.  He didn't intend to hit anyone, he just came in too hot (a minor mistake) and Verstappen had already committed to a line and didn't have time to react.

I have a hard time understanding how contact as a result of a car running someone off the track on corner exit could be a racing incident.  The driver on the inside always has the option to delay throttle application to give the driver on the outside more room.  It's just they've learned, up until this year, that they can get away with it.

So this incident at Monza, I can't get my head around.  Hamilton could have gone wider and still stayed within track limits.  He simply chose to turn in on Max.  The stewards reviewed the evidence and decided that Hamilton not giving Verstappen racing room was perfectly OK because Verstappen didn't have a "right" to be there to begin with.  But why?  Because he wasn't far enough alongside? Is that a reasonable standard? Shouldn't getting a wing endplate alongside a competitor entitle you to not be run off the track (or back off to avoid a collision)?  Would this make racing bad?  I just can't figure it out.

TLDR -- I guess I just don't understand how the rules are written such that anyone is ever in a position that they either have to decide to back out or have a crash.  If those are the two options, then both drivers should be obligated to leave racing room.  There may still be collisions, but as long as both drivers are making a good faith effort to leave, say, 1.3 car widths, we won't get this constant nonsense where drivers can "slam the door" on someone trying to make a move.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/13/21 8:26 a.m.
AaronT said:
Advan046 said:

Finally, it was sickening watching Max walk away from his car on top of another without at least doing a quick check of the other driver...

It was audibly and visually obvious that Lewis was trying to reverse out from under Max' car, the commentators made note of the fact Lewis was trying to move his car and rejoin the race, and the broadcast played the audio of Bono telling Lewis to turn the car off. 

Are you suggesting that Max should have walked up to a live Formula 1 car that was trying to move while it had another car sitting on top of it? What if Lewis were successful in moving the car while Max was under the RB or was in the path of the exposed wheels and wings? 

Again, when the shoe is on the other foot, the rules apparently change.  Lewis knew that Max was ok, didn't know he was in the hospital, and was bashed heavily for being happy.  But when Max was on top of Lewis, even though he was ok, he was allowed to just be mad at Lewis.   Did Max even ask if Lewis was ok?  Trying to back out does not mean he's ok.

I can see the double standard there.  Can you?

Everyone is supposed to bow to Max and Red BullE36 M3, but they don't have to do the same back to anyone else.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/13/21 8:27 a.m.
AaronT said:

In reply to New York Nick :

This just defies all logic: How do you check if a driver is okay while that driver is trying to get his car back in the race?

Ask?  Did he even ask with his tantrum walk back to the pits?

AaronT
AaronT Reader
9/13/21 8:37 a.m.
alfadriver said:
AaronT said:
Advan046 said:

Finally, it was sickening watching Max walk away from his car on top of another without at least doing a quick check of the other driver...

It was audibly and visually obvious that Lewis was trying to reverse out from under Max' car, the commentators made note of the fact Lewis was trying to move his car and rejoin the race, and the broadcast played the audio of Bono telling Lewis to turn the car off. 

Are you suggesting that Max should have walked up to a live Formula 1 car that was trying to move while it had another car sitting on top of it? What if Lewis were successful in moving the car while Max was under the RB or was in the path of the exposed wheels and wings? 

Again, when the shoe is on the other foot, the rules apparently change.  Lewis knew that Max was ok, didn't know he was in the hospital, and was bashed heavily for being happy.  But when Max was on top of Lewis, even though he was ok, he was allowed to just be mad at Lewis.   Did Max even ask if Lewis was ok?  Trying to back out does not mean he's ok.

I can see the double standard there.  Can you?

Everyone is supposed to bow to Max and Red BullE36 M3, but they don't have to do the same back to anyone else.

I never said anything about Lewis' celebration at Silverstone, I though that was overblown by plenty of Max fans. Feel free to check my post history... It's pretty silly for you to project something someone else said onto me because you're salty that Max and Lewis cant keep their cars from touching. It's also ridiculous to think Max should walk up to a hot car, unless you move the goalpost and now expect max to get on the radio and ask how Lewis is while Lewis is trying to drive away.
 

But hold up? did Lewis ask if Max was okay? Is Lewis the villain now!? 

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