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Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
9/14/21 1:44 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I was both a Prost and Senna fan but I was no fan of Senna's tactics.

Coming back to Max if he does not win the championship this year it will be on him, his raw speed is a force of sheer will but his wheel to wheel faux pas' are a product of wilfulness. To often he drives as if other drivers cars are equipped with a Max detector in the cockpit. 

In fairness to Verstappen he's not the only driver to ever do this but it's just sad to see someone needlessly throw it away like that...............and I'm a Hamilton fan. This is where I partially blame Red Bull; you want to see your driver go for it but he's now crashed out of two races. Sure one of them was Hamilton's doing but when you spar with someone in an all or nothing manner, all to often you end up with nothing.

I'm a Hamilton fan but I really want to see Verstappen challenge Hamilton the way Alonso did in Hungary. 

 

  

 

HoserRacing
HoserRacing HalfDork
9/14/21 1:51 p.m.

In reply to trigun7469 :

The other comparison is that Ric finished the race, Max did not laugh

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/21 1:54 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

 

I'm a Hamilton fan but I really want to see Verstappen challenge Hamilton the way Alonso did in Hungary. 

 

  

 

You mean 2021 and not 2008, right?

But it's also fair to point out that we would like to see Max battle Lewis as Lewis battled Alonso- meaning that he didn't stick his nose in a place that would certainly cause an accident.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/14/21 3:14 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

You saw it on Lap 1, Hammy had the wherewithal to back out going into the 2nd chicane because he didn't have it. 

This is what, Max's 6th year and he still does it? He has pace, no doubt about it, but how he still hasn't figured out a bit of racecraft is mind boggling to me. 

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/14/21 3:24 p.m.

In reply to HoserRacing :

Max is probably more Senna styled then anybody, at this point maybe he can't change that style. Yes it could cost him a championship, just like the 1989 championship cost Senna. Clearly Mercedes knows this and RB has no control of the situation.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/21 4:32 p.m.
z31maniac said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

You saw it on Lap 1, Hammy had the wherewithal to back out going into the 2nd chicane because he didn't have it. 

This is what, Max's 6th year and he still does it? He has pace, no doubt about it, but how he still hasn't figured out a bit of racecraft is mind boggling to me. 

I think it's been a weakness of Max's for a long time. He's never taken the long view, even to the point of refusing to let a car pass and have it cost him places (US race a couple of years ago). He's counted on the fact that other drivers will give way to him because it's more important for them to finish the race than to win the corner. So over 6 years, he's learned that everyone yields to Max because he's a badass hard racer.

And that's changed. Lewis needs to win the corners now that the competition is so tight, so it's no longer an automatic yield. And Max hasn't learned that judgement, that long view that sometimes you take the points you can instead of risking losing them all. He also didn't get the chance to learn it in the junior leagues because he only got one year in F3 before getting bumped to the big show.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/14/21 4:51 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

And that's changed. Lewis needs to win the corners now that the competition is so tight, so it's no longer an automatic yield. And Max hasn't learned that judgement, that long view that sometimes you take the points you can instead of risking losing them all. He also didn't get the chance to learn it in the junior leagues because he only got one year in F3 before getting bumped to the big show.

Perhaps.  OTOH, there's an argument that a 0-0 points tally from this race is actually a net win for Verstappen over Hamilton finishing ahead of him.  Verstappen has a slim lead in the championship, nobody else is even close so it's just a 2-way fight.  He had 3-lap old hard tires, Hamilton on brand-new softs, and it was a track that favored the Mercedes, so if he'd backed off he likely never would have had another chance to pass.  Likely Hamilton would have taken 2nd or 3rd (I don't think he would have caught Ricciardo), and Max would have been 1 or 2 places behind him depending on what happened with Norris.  That's a minimum 3 point drop.

So from an abstract, cynical point of view, the crash worked to his advantage.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/14/21 4:58 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:
Keith Tanner said:

And that's changed. Lewis needs to win the corners now that the competition is so tight, so it's no longer an automatic yield. And Max hasn't learned that judgement, that long view that sometimes you take the points you can instead of risking losing them all. He also didn't get the chance to learn it in the junior leagues because he only got one year in F3 before getting bumped to the big show.

Perhaps.  OTOH, there's an argument that a 0-0 points tally from this race is actually a net win for Verstappen over Hamilton finishing ahead of him.  Verstappen has a slim lead in the championship, nobody else is even close so it's just a 2-way fight.  He had 3-lap old hard tires, Hamilton on brand-new softs, and it was a track that favored the Mercedes, so if he'd backed off he likely never would have had another chance to pass.  Likely Hamilton would have taken 2nd or 3rd (I don't think he would have caught Ricciardo), and Max would have been 1 or 2 places behind him depending on what happened with Norris.  That's a minimum 3 point drop.

So from an abstract, cynical point of view, the crash worked to his advantage.

That's why Damon Hill made the comment it may have been an intentional move on Crashstappen's part. 

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/21 5:16 p.m.

Ugh can we talk about the drivers that actually finished the damn race?!?

Kubica did well substituting, Ferrari had a quiet strong team finish, and can we acknowledge that no matter what numbnuts and knucklehead did Danny Ric was going to win!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/21 5:19 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I'm not sure Max operates at that level, but it definitely worked out for him.

Danny sealed his victory with that pass at the start, because unless you are Bottas with his pants on fire and a brand new power unit, you just don't get to pass at that track. I am really happy for McLaren overall.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/21 6:05 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Danny also set up the win by starting well in the sprint.  Finishing 3rd from 5th(?) put him next to Max, and the sprint foretold the race start, too.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
9/14/21 7:52 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

In answer to your earlier question yes 2021

As for Ricciardo I was stoked when he got a monster start. You have to love the guy as he never gives up.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
9/14/21 8:21 p.m.

That pass by Norris on LeClerc!!! It wasn't as daunting on the helicopter view but on that live long camera shot it looked like he was two wheel and far off into the inside grass. I thought it was going to be a horrendous crash. But in helicopter view you can see that he just kicked up some dust before his wheels hit the inside curbing. Leclerc still shimmied left and Norris had to make it happen into the chicane. 

Also that battle with Bottas and Perez where Bottas again showed his racecraft skills cheeky AS in he basically had the pass made but somehow outbraked himself into the second chicane and gave it back. 

I am quite happy that Russell got another couple points too. 

I am not blind to the fact that Renault is in the points with both cars again. I really thought AlphaTauri was going to hold onto 5th in the constructors but they seem to be having the worst luck or Gasly just can't avoid trouble at the starts. 

 

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose SuperDork
9/14/21 11:10 p.m.

Regardless of my thoughts on the *obvious* racing incident, double orange on the podium and triple shoey is all good in my book.

rob_lewis
rob_lewis GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
9/15/21 11:22 a.m.

FYI.

The Schumacher documentary just dropped on Netflix.  Trying my best NOT to watch it while trying to work and wait until tonight. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/15/21 12:28 p.m.
rob_lewis said:

FYI.

The Schumacher documentary just dropped on Netflix.  Trying my best NOT to watch it while trying to work and wait until tonight. 

Well I know what I'll be watching tonight. 

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
9/15/21 8:50 p.m.

Just finished watching Schumacher doc and it's very good, but it does skip over the more controversial aspects of Michael's racing career, which is understandable considering it was made by his family. The ending is really, really sad

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/15/21 9:53 p.m.
loosecannon said:

Just finished watching Schumacher doc and it's very good, but it does skip over the more controversial aspects of Michael's racing career, which is understandable considering it was made by his family. The ending is really, really sad

Agreed, I enjoyed it. It showed a more "human" side of him.

 

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/16/21 6:23 a.m.

Mick Schumacher 'would give up everything' to talk racing with his father As a fan I always hope that Michael would recover, very heart breaking to hear the quote from Mick, I look forward to watching the netflix special.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
9/17/21 8:50 a.m.

Honestly not a Schumacher fan so I am not sure I will watch it any time soon. 

So Aston has kept Vettel. Stroll I can't believe has been around for 6 years already?!?

I am not too excited about sochi but I guess they will bring out the crowds for mazepen. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/17/21 9:09 a.m.
trigun7469 said:

Mick Schumacher 'would give up everything' to talk racing with his father As a fan I always hope that Michael would recover, very heart breaking to hear the quote from Mick, I look forward to watching the netflix special.

Kinda confirms that he's vegetative, which is the only conclusion a person can draw from the complete seclusion since the accident.

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/21/21 9:00 a.m.

How the new Pirellis are helping Mercedes by Peter Windsor If this is true, and applies to next year, there will probably be some dominate cars.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/21/21 9:03 a.m.
z31maniac said:
loosecannon said:

Just finished watching Schumacher doc and it's very good, but it does skip over the more controversial aspects of Michael's racing career, which is understandable considering it was made by his family. The ending is really, really sad

Agreed, I enjoyed it. It showed a more "human" side of him.

 

I really didn't get much out of the show.  Senna, Williams, McLaren, all had way more interest to me.  

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/24/21 2:37 p.m.

Whitmarsh to Aston is a interesting move, I am a big Vettel fan and I know that Stroll is 100% always going to be in the line up but would like to see a Oscar Piatri, Liam Lawson or a Nyck de Vries in the Friday test driver role next year.

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/25/21 8:37 a.m.

That's a fun grid for tomorrow, now the question is will James somehow tap into George's radio?

James - "George, it's James, we need you to let him by, he's faster."

George - "James? who's James? What???"

lol

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