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alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/12/21 7:40 p.m.

One of the things I'm seriously wondering about- the Renault.  Since they will have real side pods- all of that mass they had at the top of the car can move back down.  Maybe that whole bulge we saw this year was totally designed for the next gen car.

New York Nick
New York Nick GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/12/21 8:17 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

It's all part of El Plan. 

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
12/12/21 8:26 p.m.

I think the 18" wheels are going to make a huge difference to the responsiveness of the cars. watching slow motion videos of the cars on the 13" wheels shows how much the tires move around but that will be mostly gone next year. The cars should be able to follow more closely, too. 

BrewCity20
BrewCity20 Reader
12/12/21 8:30 p.m.

Yeah, I'm really excited to see what the new cars have in store. Hopefully closer racing and a big of a shake-up in the standings are in order. Also intersted to see what the Renault "buldge" is all about in its natural habitat.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
12/12/21 8:58 p.m.
loosecannon said:

I think the 18" wheels are going to make a huge difference to the responsiveness of the cars. watching slow motion videos of the cars on the 13" wheels shows how much the tires move around but that will be mostly gone next year. The cars should be able to follow more closely, too. 

I agree.  I think the suspension and tire development will be huge.  Probably bigger than developing the new aero, really.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/12/21 9:08 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:
loosecannon said:

I think the 18" wheels are going to make a huge difference to the responsiveness of the cars. watching slow motion videos of the cars on the 13" wheels shows how much the tires move around but that will be mostly gone next year. The cars should be able to follow more closely, too. 

I agree.  I think the suspension and tire development will be huge.  Probably bigger than developing the new aero, really.

It will be interesting to see how the teams deal with real spring rates instead of the tirewall.

It was a long time ago when there was a stark difference between McLaren and Ferrari when one was much more compliant than the other even on the balloons they drove on.

And then the new responsiveness will very much change how they wear- so like you suggest whoever figures out the tires is going to have a massive advantage.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 2:31 p.m.

So the first hard testing for the 2022 cars is going on.  Sort of.  Kind of.. 

All but Williams built a mule car for a Pirelli 2022 tire test, which is an old car with updated suspension to match the tire capability.  Some have brakes to match the bigger wheels, some just have adaptors to make the old ones fit.  And Pirelli is in control of the actual testing- dictating the driving and cycles each driver is doing.  Sounds like many of the cars are 2019 spec versions- and they all have the much more complicated front wing packages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNBL65iqdO4&ab_channel=FORMULA1

It will be interesting to see the results coming out- but I doubt we will hear anything.

(all teams are running in the Young Driver test using the 2021 cars)

Jesse Ransom
Jesse Ransom GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/14/21 2:43 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

I'd love to know what's going on with that test. I'd assume the new tires will want a bunch of things to be different from the old ones, and I'm sure Pirelli has been talking to the teams about those differences. So I'd expect the new cars to have some significant differences in suspension that the mules won't have, so I wonder how much "well, they're working badly like this, so that's in line with the stuff we'd expect to change on the new car" there is... Assuming things like softer suspension since the sidewall isn't doing the job and attendant need to control camber now that the suspension's actually moving?

Or maybe they have more freedom to play with geometry on the old tub than I'd have thought and are adapted accordingly?

Benswen
Benswen Reader
12/14/21 2:57 p.m.

George and Max duke it out for the top spots in most races, either finishing 1-2 or crashing into each other.  Lewis gets number 8 for avoiding the fray, and retires.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 2:59 p.m.

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

One thing that was mentioned in the video was that all of the suspension components have been beefed up.  Which matches the increased shock load that the short profile tires will transmit.  That was pretty obvious seeing the cars (which they were very much not hiding at all).  I would suspect, like you, that they would use reduced spring rates.  Not sure how much.  

And I bet the geometry change is different from team to team- the ones using the carry over brakes have a tougher time with very different geometry, since it has to fit within the adaptors; whereas the cars using what looks to be closer to a 2022 brake system has uprights closer to a 2022 spec, and may have some more leeway.  

2022 is going to be such a massive change in both the tires and the aero concept- this is going to be really interesting.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 3:48 p.m.

Will the shorter sidewalls mean a longer warm-up time? It's worth noting that the tires are also larger diameter, so there isn't a 2.5" drop in sidewall height. But it's still significant.

Suspension design is going to become so much more important than it has been for years. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/14/21 3:48 p.m.

Some pics have come out of the various wheel covers which are built by the teams but have to meet certain design specs and layouts. There is talk of RGB LED's integrated into those covers to display who knows what but the McLarens were sporting those. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 4:03 p.m.

In reply to adam525i :

That was an interesting comment, that they think there will be advertising on the wheel covers.  So it will run like those LED clocks that you always saw in the second hand store....  Didn't think about that.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 4:05 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Will the shorter sidewalls mean a longer warm-up time? It's worth noting that the tires are also larger diameter, so there isn't a 2.5" drop in sidewall height. But it's still significant.

Suspension design is going to become so much more important than it has been for years. 

Don't forget that tire heaters are being phased out.  googling it tells me there's a drop in heater temp for 2022, a further drop in 2023, and no tire heaters in 2024.  Making the suspension even more critical on out laps.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 4:23 p.m.

I thought the heaters were going away. So between less carcass movement and no blankets, they're going to be squirelly coming out of the pits.

Do the rules say anything about excessive infrared heaters to keep the pits warm? We're going to see tire changers in cool suits :)

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
12/14/21 6:09 p.m.
Benswen said:

George and Max duke it out for the top spots in most races, either finishing 1-2 or crashing into each other.  Lewis gets number 8 for avoiding the fray, and retires.

That is certainly not an unreasonable thought.laugh

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/14/21 6:10 p.m.

Prediction...

Mercedes - plods along and wins...  again.

Redbull - will fade hard as the year goes on (opposite to last couple of seasons) 

Ferrari - both drivers get a win

Mclaren- Lando gets a win

Alpha tauri - continue to improve

Aston Martin- money is being spent

Alpine - decent car lots of crashes

Williams - will podium at some point.

Haas - Good car, mediocre driver lineup.

Alfa Romeo- bad car

We will see....

 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 6:13 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

LOL, that would be pretty funny.  

One thing that will be different- the out lap for qualifying will be faster.

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/21 6:41 p.m.

2022 repeats 2012 with 7 winners in 7 rounds before the lead teams pull away. My WMC order prediction:

  1. Ferrari - LeClerc and Sainz both get a win and Ferrari takes both titles with LeClerc as WDC.
  2. McLaren- Lando and Danny Ric both get a win.
  3. Alpine - Ocon wins again and Alonso podiums. Alonso wins the Indy 500.
  4. Mercedes - Very competitive in later rounds. Russell gets his first win, Hamilton wins too, but leaves for Ferrari at the end of the season.
  5. Redbull - Screws the chassis and the engine development and crater hard. Max wins early.
  6. Aston Martin - Quietly competent and both Vettel and Stroll get a podium. Vettel retires and is replaced with Sainz for 23.
  7. Alpha Tauri - Gasley gets a win, Tsunoda flames out and is replaced for 23.
  8. Williams - Gets a few points but still looks bad. Changes names for 23.
  9. Alfa Romeo - Bottas gets some points but hates it and leaves for 23.
  10. Haas - Schumacher scores some points, Mazespin causes controversy. Team sell out and becomes Urakali Racing in 23.

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
12/15/21 10:04 a.m.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

Hamilton wins too, but leaves for Ferrari at the end of the season.

Why would you say such hurtful things!?!?! lol 

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/15/21 11:43 a.m.
z31maniac said:
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

Hamilton wins too, but leaves for Ferrari at the end of the season.

Why would you say such hurtful things!?!?! lol 

Honestly, legacy. Hamilton has won the WDC with McLaren and Mercedes. RB will never hire him (and he'd never go there, THAT would be hateful) so the only big team left with any shot at winning is the Scuderia. At some point every driver dreams of driving a scarlet F1 car, and now that Ferrari's management isn't toxic, I can see that being a good fit. How epic would it be if Hamilton got #8 in a Ferrari? He'd be the first driver to win 3 WDC with 3 different teams since Fangio in the 50's when everything was calculated differently, and the only one to do it with 3 major teams. He would unquestionably be the GOAT.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
12/15/21 2:08 p.m.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

Hamilton wins too, but leaves for Ferrari at the end of the season.

Why would you say such hurtful things!?!?! lol 

Honestly, legacy. Hamilton has won the WDC with McLaren and Mercedes. RB will never hire him (and he'd never go there, THAT would be hateful) so the only big team left with any shot at winning is the Scuderia. At some point every driver dreams of driving a scarlet F1 car, and now that Ferrari's management isn't toxic, I can see that being a good fit. How epic would it be if Hamilton got #8 in a Ferrari? He'd be the first driver to win 3 WDC with 3 different teams since Fangio in the 50's when everything was calculated differently, and the only one to do it with 3 major teams. He would unquestionably be the GOAT.

You're making far too much sense! Hammy has been one of my favorites since he started, along with Mark Webbaaaaahh. 

But I still want to see him break the record with Mercedes. But I already think he's the GOAT. He definitely has made some questionable moves in the past, but nothing like Schumi or Senna. I still remember Schumi nearly driving Ruebens into the wall when he wasn't even a title competitor, wasn't that at Hungary?

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
12/27/21 6:01 p.m.

Keep seeing a blurb on the MSN headline page announcing Audi's possible entry into the fray. Has anyone else seen this ?  

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 7:21 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

All I can find is that they will mention in early in '22 and it will be for '26.

The next big question is - will they keep the e-turbo system?  That's one everyone is heavily invested in, but it's very unlikely to make it to full production.  So there's a real debate to drop that to entice new engine companies.

The other question which I would assume will be confirmed will be- is that for Red Bull Engines, or a new engine maker?

But it sure appears that a big announcement early in '22 about Audi is coming.

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
12/28/21 9:35 a.m.

What's the latest word on Honda/RB engine consortium ?

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