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rob_lewis
rob_lewis UberDork
11/30/23 11:14 a.m.
Advan046 said:

I think a permanent steward in addition to the visiting round table of old drivers would be a good idea.

One other thing along those lines that I'd like to see is permanent track workers.  I know there's some fun in using local people as volunteers, but I feel like F1 needs to invest in some permanent ones that simply travel with the show like all the other supporting people.  Maybe still keep local folks for non-critical/support things.

Regarding 2024, I expect RedBull to continue to dominate. 
McLaren seems to have figured something out and I hope they continue into next year and start challenging for more podiums.
Ferrari seems to be quick, but fall apart in the races.  Not sure how much of that is the car and how much of it is strategy.  It's been a long time since they were at the top.  If they can run efficiently, I could easily see them challenging RB. 
Mercedes will always be a contender.  They really messed up this recent car, but rumor is the 2024 is almost 100% different. Will different mean closer to the front or further back? 
The "secondary" teams also seem to be stepping up. 
Aston Martin came out of the box running quick.  They stumbled mid-year and then surged back at the end.  Definitely a possibility to challenge for those podium places. 
Williams has also made some big strides.  Probably not enough to get regular podiums, but enough to shake up the mid-field. 
Alfa has had moments of clarity. 
AT isn't too far off, either. 
Not sure what the deal is with Alpine.  They theoretically have significant backing and can be a front runner in the right conditions. 
Haas will probably stay at the bottom, although they've worked on the 2024 car most of this year, so maybe they can get in the mid-field fight.

Overall, I think there are some serious challenges for all the spots in 2024.  I would say 2022/23 have been better racing.  Specifically, this year I think that everyone not RB has been fighting hard among themselves which makes for great racing.  The mid-pack, however you define it, seems to be evenly matched which will also continue to provide some good racing. 

Basically, although RB dominated this year, there were enough glimmers of hope throughout that may translate into less dominance for 2024.

-Rob

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
11/30/23 11:21 a.m.

Can the Cost Cap be considered a flop yet? The idea was enforcing a limit on spending, F1 would help level the playing field more by enabling smaller teams with less resources to compete in an even environment against teams boasting huge budgets. 

I am hopeful that a decision will be made on Andretti team, so we can see them on the 25 grid.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/30/23 11:27 a.m.

The 2024 season will mark the 38th season of following Formula 1.

I was/am a Schumacher fan; when he was dominating I'd watch the first 5-10 laps and then the last 3.

I am not quite there yet with Verstappen's domination but another season like this one would likely do it. It's not so much that he won every race it's that he won by such margins.

As for the opportunities for young drivers; they've always been scarce. I've read so many interviews with sports car drivers who couldn't quite break through to F1.

 

 

 

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/30/23 11:53 a.m.

In reply to rob_lewis :

Rob, 

I would be all for the post chiefs and sector chiefs being part of the traveling circus. There is the biggest problem, communication. No one person will have the language skills to communicate at the level needed to travel to all of the countries. That communication is needed to provide the appropriate response to safely handle the situation for both the driver and the recovery crew. They wouldn't be able to have 800 marshals, etc. to travel all year and getting teams to work even say all of that continents races would be a large feat. It sounds like a great idea but logistically not possible. 

A better solution would be to fully cover the expenses for in-country marshals. I didn't do a race this year because of the high cost to volunteer my time. To do a race is a $2000 investment if you have to fly in for Miami and Las Vegas and less for COTA because you can camp there if you want. Because of that, there are a lot of really good marshals that can not or will not travel there because of the costs. I was one of them and I have over 50 FIA global category series races that I've worked (F1, WEC, Etc) That level of experience not working races is a sin. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/30/23 12:29 p.m.

In reply to trigun7469 :

The cost cap itself wasn't to even the field by itself, it needed the resources distribution, too. The cap part that was supposed to keep and attract teams and engines is working- Audi and GM are being added to the fold. Well, theoretically. Audi has shown cracks, and GM is with Andretti. 
 

But at least the costs are not pushing anyone away. 
 

As for being even, the cost cap does seem to hinder teams trying to solve their problems. 

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP Dork
11/30/23 1:14 p.m.

What if...

Top drivers have to do a practice lap in a bottom teams car and see if its the driver or the car that's the issue? Do it in pre season. Like if Max hops in Alpines car and can still post a lap time *close* to his in his RB car, then the low team knows what to prioritize with training for their drivers, BUT should his lap be WAY off pace then the team knows its absolutely the car.

Could work no?

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
11/30/23 1:29 p.m.

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Or just do what Touring cars did and add weight to the winning car, can imagine Max winning with a car that weighs 200lbs more then any other car laugh

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/30/23 2:04 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

I was/am a Schumacher fan; when he was dominating I'd watch the first 5-10 laps and then the last 3.

I am not quite there yet with Verstappen's domination but another season like this one would likely do it. It's not so much that he won every race it's that he won by such margins.

Sort of.  Verstappen rarely has the kind of "lapping up to 3rd place" margins that Schumacher often did, but a lot of that is probably due to the engine life rules now.  So build up a comfortable 10-20 second lead and then start short-shifting it to save the wear.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
11/30/23 2:05 p.m.

Given the lack of seats a way to mandate each team had a pairing of old and new would be neat.

 Limit the number of yrs you can play in F1,I mean how many drivers have we seen just tumble down thru lower ranked teams taking up space untill finally out.

 

 Maybe a combined total of yrs in F1 for team mates :)

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/30/23 4:32 p.m.

First on the Marshals. I know many of the locals who worked it and were some very experienced people there.  For those who weren't terribly experienced they worked non critical positions.

As for trying to give young drivers a chance I don't see how that would make the racing any more or less exciting.

My take on it is just leave it alone. There are probably 2000 drivers worldwide with the skill to be F1 drivers but there are only 20 spots. I bet everyone on this board knows of at least one person talented enough to be a professional driver but won't get a shot for one reason or another. 

I remember reading a quote that there are more potential world champions in the stands then there is on track.

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
11/30/23 4:39 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

First on the Marshals. I know many of the locals who worked it and were some very experienced people there.  For those who weren't terribly experienced they worked non critical positions.

As for trying to give young drivers a chance I don't see how that would make the racing any more or less exciting.

My take on it is just leave it alone. There are probably 2000 drivers worldwide with the skill to be F1 drivers but there are only 20 spots. I bet everyone on this board knows of at least one person talented enough to be a professional driver but won't get a shot for one reason or another. 

I remember reading a quote that there are more potential world champions in the stands then there is on track.

Like this guy.. 

 

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
11/30/23 6:34 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I didn't say or expect new drivers to make it more or less exciting,just pointing out we essentially see the same faces finishing in more or less the same positions race after race year after year.

 Can't find the next great thing if they never get the chance is all.

 I'm not as harsh as Marko but I'd cycle thru drivers quicker then normally seen,you generally know if somebody brings something special pretty quickly regardless of the sport.

 Look at the instant impact Senna,Shumacher,Hamilton Verstappen for example brought to the sport.

 

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
11/30/23 7:13 p.m.

In reply to kevlarcorolla :

I just want see great racing...........even if it's the same drivers for the next 10 years. 

If there are new drivers fine but I don't get all that excited about them. I find them interesting when they do well but at the end of the day it's the racing that get's me real excited.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
11/30/23 7:40 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Agreed,but I think your way more patient then me :)

 New guys are potentially way more interesting to me then the same dogs with the same tricks ;)

 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
11/30/23 8:35 p.m.

In reply to trigun7469 :

I think the cost cap has had a great start. Mostly because it has moved factory based talent around.  By 2025, we should see if it brings the field closer.

It wasn't long ago the teams were so far spread that there was a 107% rule in qualifying. 

Now they are so close, hopefully a little more wind tunnel time for HAAS will allow them to leap to mid field. RBR may slide back to not winning by double digits in cruise mode.

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
11/30/23 8:38 p.m.

I think MBs biggest concern is their powertrain long term. Up to and beyond 2026. They can't spend like before.

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
11/30/23 8:45 p.m.

Wild prediction!

Tsunoda Yuki wins two races before summer break and replaces Perez at Redbull for Zandvoort!

Albon and Williams compete for podiums all year!

HAAS suck but somehow win the last three races?!?

Mike924
Mike924 HalfDork
12/1/23 11:30 a.m.

In the coming year the First thing that I believe should be considered, as it affects the cost of the whole circus is how the season is organized.  It is better than 2023 but when the teams are coming to Miami, then back to Italy, then Monaco, then Canada then back overseas it costs quite a lot, and does nothing for the F1 that wants to be seen as a "Leader in Green Technology".

Secondly, I would hope that Logan Sargent gets to keep his seat at Williams.  Yes he did not come near Alex Albon who has 5 years experience, but how do you get the experience if you don't drive the car and the tracks.  Now that Sargent has a year and has seen all the tracks, lets see what he can do.  If he can't challenge Albon, sorry but you had a chance.

Here is where my opinion might anger people.  DROP 10 races!!  Formula 1 used to be special when they had fewer races, I know I was more invovled and ready to watch, now it is kind of Meh. Another race.  Ok.  When this season ended I was ready for it to end, as I am sure the drivers were.  Too many races dilute the experience and the draw, in my opinion.  With less races, less $$ spent, cost cap is easier and then more teams can enter.

Bring in Andretti.  The current teams don't want to loose money, Well neither does Andretti Autosport (Global).  They are serious, they have backing, they have the name.  If all the other teams are worried about money, Man up and make sure Andretti doesn't take you cash.

The Opinions Expressed Above DO Belong to ME and I DO Stand by them.  LOL 

 

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
12/1/23 11:39 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

Without any major rule changes you are probably right that teams can't buy your way out of a problem, but I am curious what will happen when the rules change in 2026. Imagine if Mercedes screws up the formula and 6 cars on the grid, sitting at the end of the grid. I am also thinking that maybe Toto's approach to running the team in the new area hampers them more then anyone.

Logan on for another year, I wonder if this is the first time with virtually no driver changes.

jharry3
jharry3 GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/1/23 11:59 a.m.

Why, oh why is it that every time a team or a driver (or the combo) figures out how to win more than others does that trigger animosity against their success?  

I want F1 to be always centered on engineering innovation to catch up in the pack.  Constant competition and innovation.     

The only suggestion I see that would help in a positive way, and keep the competition suspense going, is for the back markers to be allowed more development time. 

That doesn't mean that anyone will catch up to the reigning genius but, as they say in the South, even a blind pig finds an acorn occasionally.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/1/23 1:00 p.m.

In reply to Mike924 :

I agree. More teams and fewer races would be fine. They could drop every middle eastern circuit and no one here would cry about it.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/1/23 1:03 p.m.
jharry3 said:

Why, oh why is it that every time a team or a driver (or the combo) figures out how to win more than others does that trigger animosity against their success?  

I want F1 to be always centered on engineering innovation to catch up in the pack.  Constant competition and innovation.     

This! A thousand times this! 

ggarrard
ggarrard GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/2/23 11:16 a.m.

Sargeant keeps his Williams seat for 2024

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-f1-grid-for-2024-complete-as-williams-retain-sargeant-after-rookie.73Rs275h5uXFk17AD7AwqE.html

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/2/23 1:11 p.m.
ggarrard said:

Sargeant keeps his Williams seat for 2024

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-f1-grid-for-2024-complete-as-williams-retain-sargeant-after-rookie.73Rs275h5uXFk17AD7AwqE.html

Ugh.  He is not good.  He wasn't good enough in f2 either.

I want Williams to kick ass again.  I want them to have a great driver beside albon so they can develop the car.  It seems that dorilton isn't willing to spend the money and are happy with the increase in value that the Williams team has achieved. 

Poo.

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/3/23 10:14 a.m.

In reply to ggarrard :

I had just read this too. He doesn't seem like the best available driver but I guess I'll give Williams +1 for loyalty. 
I can't help but think of Nick DeVries whenever this convo comes up. He had that ride locked and choose to go to AT and the driver grinder because he thought it would be a better ride. Turned out the car was a piece of E36 M3 and then they ditched him, if he had taken the Williams ride he would have been so much better off. 

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