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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/16/18 10:03 a.m.
alfadriver said:
Keith Tanner said:
alfadriver said:

Do you REALLY think that the car a lap down should be allowed to pass the top 5 cars just because it's faster than the leader?

Yes. They’re not fighting the same fight. 

So how do you prevent 2-5 from taking advantage of that blue flag and passing the leader under false reasons?  I'm not sure that impacting who wins the race because you are letting back markers by is a good thing.  

Again, race craft kept Ricciado in front.  But letting back markers by would eliminate that race craft, and prevent a pretty amazing win with bad hardware.  

That's going to come down to the racecraft of the leader. Backmarkers manage it all the time. Especially in the tight confines of Monaco, it should be possible to let one faster car past without leaking a second. And you know what? Just like coming out into traffic after a pit stop, this is part of the race. Cars at different speeds are always a factor. Being in the lead doesn't give you magical rights.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/16/18 10:05 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

Other than the back marker catching the leaders, I'm not.  Ricciardo's car had a significant power system failure in the middle of this year's Monaco GP, which cost him multiple seconds per lap.  But he managed to use what he had left along with the track layout to keep far faster cars behind him.  He was slow enough that any back marker should have been able to close on the leading pack.

Yes, it's hypothetical since a back marker didn't actually catch up.  But the slow leader ahead of faster followers did really happen.  Which is why I keep asking- it's not as far fetched as people seem to think.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/16/18 10:09 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Except that you are allowed to defend your position.  You do NOT have to let faster people by just because they are faster.  That happens all the time.

And I don't see it possible that a back marker could pass the leader and keep an even faster car behind.  But that's just me.

The real question is- does a back marker get by just because he's faster than the leader, but not faster that the other 4 cars following the leader.  Most here think it's fine- which is ok.  But I very much don't see that it's possible to let a back marker though and not let any of the others pass.  Heck, I don't see how 4th would prevent 5th from getting by when the let a back marker through.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/16/18 11:13 a.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Except that you are allowed to defend your position.  You do NOT have to let faster people by just because they are faster.  That happens all the time.

Not if you're battling for position. But that's exactly what a blue flag is - there's a faster car behind you that you are impeding and not battling with. It could be a car in a different class, or it could be an F1 car that's on fresh rubber even if it's a lap down.

If the guys stuck behind the leader have the potential of being faster, but can't get past the leader, then they are no faster than the leader. Again, it happens with backmarkers all the time. A Force India might be holding up a couple of Renaults by driving the widest pink car in the world, but all of them have to get out of the way when the faster cars catch up. I don't see why it's any different just because the slow cars are a lap up.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
11/16/18 11:32 a.m.

We still talking about this?:)

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/16/18 11:45 a.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Other than the back marker catching the leaders, I'm not.  Ricciardo's car had a significant power system failure in the middle of this year's Monaco GP, which cost him multiple seconds per lap.  But he managed to use what he had left along with the track layout to keep far faster cars behind him.  He was slow enough that any back marker should have been able to close on the leading pack.

Yes, it's hypothetical since a back marker didn't actually catch up.  But the slow leader ahead of faster followers did really happen.  Which is why I keep asking- it's not as far fetched as people seem to think.

How many times has that happened? Hence my point about an edge case.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
11/20/18 5:11 p.m.

This seems well within character for Alonso in the old days.  Makes him drivinf for Mclaren now a bit odd, though.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/20/alonso-tried-to-blackmail-mclaren-into-sabotaging-hamiltons-race-at-hungary-in-2007/

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/20/18 5:29 p.m.

In the old days? He's been a grade A ass for the past few years. Seems totally plausible. If he was my driver, I probably would have fired him for being a total PR train wreck.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/20/18 6:10 p.m.

Yeah, this came out in 2007 during the whole scandal, and is one of the reasons why I don't believe the claims that Alonso knew nothing about the intentional crash in Singapore the following year.

As to how Alonso went back -- Ron Dennis was sort of nominally still there, but I don't think he was really in charge any more.  Either that or he knew how bad the Honda engine was going to be and offered the drive as repayment... :)

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
11/20/18 6:35 p.m.

No doubt that Alonso is still a grade A+ driver, but he’s also a grade A+ shiny happy person. Why do you think Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull won’t have him. He’s made himself unemployable in the paddock. GP2 engine comments  and constant bitching about the engine supplier who was paying his salary when Honda were still with McLaren shows his true colors. And don’t forget his Trump like ego that claimed his win at LeMans this year was one of the toughest ever when the Toyota’s were the only cars with a shot of winning anyway. He’s a liability. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. 

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
11/22/18 6:05 p.m.

Can we talk about Kubica now?

loosecannon
loosecannon Dork
11/22/18 9:16 p.m.
T.J. said:

Can we talk about Kubica now?

Kubica definitely has talent but on a grid where giving only 99.3% will put you somewhere around 13th, how is he going to overcome his hand problems? My guess is that he won't and will be slow in the Williams. Of course, any deficit in speed will be blamed on the car and not RK but I'm afraid it will be just more of Williams being at the back of the pack. My Polish wife will be thrilled to see him out there, though

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
11/22/18 10:09 p.m.
T.J. said:

Can we talk about Kubica now?

I can't believe it actually. Good for him. 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
11/25/18 7:40 a.m.

Not watching the race live but I was on the phone to my 78 year old mom back in England who was, apparently there was a massive start line shunt with a car flipping many times then coming to rest upside down. I took a while but the drier is out and walking so I assume ok. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/18 8:50 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

watched while getting ready to get off the Anthem of the Seas.. Hulkenberg and Grosjean touched wheels sending Nico off into a couple of rolls.  He’s fine.  

 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
11/25/18 10:22 a.m.

1. It seems that several of the mid pack runners had used up all their parts for the season.

2.  Go Lewis. Does he end his carreer with every single win record?  All he really needs to do is pass Michael for total wins, I think.  

3.   This track has about the best DRS layout on the entire circuit.

4.   There were lots of really good mid pack races today.

5.  Will there be a clear winner in the aero wars with the new package, or do we get five or six potential winners every weekend?

6. Is Valteri going to keep his chair, or is Ocon going to displace him?

7.   Does Leclerc push Seb like Danny did when he came to RB?

8.  I enjoyed this season a lot.  Like, really a lot.

 

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
11/25/18 12:03 p.m.

I just jumped in here.  Hamilton and Mercedes have been dominant again this year. Glad Kimi had a win a few races back. Was hoping Alonso would have done better this season. It's really just been three teams in contention and mostly just one. I use to be a rabid F1 fan now I barely care. It's been a snoozer season for me. I am hoping, like I do every year, that the next season will be more competitive with more and different winners.  Congrats to Lewis, you can't fault some one for being dominant. I am going to sleep now.  

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
11/25/18 1:13 p.m.

Are we sure Lewis was in the car today? wink

Posted on Hamilton's social media

rob_lewis
rob_lewis GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/25/18 1:35 p.m.
Ian F said:

Are we sure Lewis was in the car today? wink

Posted on Hamilton's social media

 

Link was acting weird, so let's see if this works:

https://www.facebook.com/LewisHamilton/videos/1985629681505684/?t=31

Hamilton captured

I think Will Smith did pretty much every task at the race.  Surprised they didn't have him working the pits, too.

-Rob

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
11/25/18 2:22 p.m.

In reply to rob_lewis :

That is awfully good.  

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/18 4:31 p.m.

That Hulkenberg crash was terrifying - not so much the actual crash, but the radio call from the trapped driver who could see fire. I can't believe they broadcast that. I've argued before that open wheels are a stupid idea, that was a perfect example of why. A little brush between two cars turned into a cartwheeling vehicle that was full of fuel with a fully charged battery instead of a couple of wheel marks on the sides.

Max was lucky that neither of his wheel-to-wheel collisions today ended the same way. Max, if people are always running into you, maybe it's not the other people...

Pretty fun race to watch, there was some serious racing through the pack. And Alonso went out showing his true colors, acting like an ass. Man, I'm looking forward to him being gone. But did you notice that, for the first time in how many years, we had two cars on the same with distinct liveries thanks to his farewell plumage? It's not usually allowed by the FIA, but it sure was nice to be able to identify which car is which without looking for the little yellow hat.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/18 9:31 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I put that crash on Hulkenberg. He never made the pass and just came down on him at the apex. What was the other car to do?  Hulkenberg should have left room and not crashed him self out. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/18 10:15 p.m.

Yeah, I agree. It's amazing anyone survives that first lap with the whole pack jammed together.

But it doesn't matter whose fault it is, the consequences were far greater than they should have been. It should have been some bent fenders or some tire marks on the door, not an upside down car on fire. Open wheels are dumb. They're slower, they're more dangerous, they have a big effect on how hard it is to pass a car in front. I know it'll never change because it's history, it's part of the spectacle, blah blah blah. But if you were designing the ideal race car from scratch, you'd never consider the concept.

Here's your history wink 

Put the enclosed wheels in the middle of a pack of open-wheelers and the naked tires look even more dangerous. That's Silverstone 1954, I believe.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/18 10:23 p.m.

Well 101????  Days till 2019!!!   This was an all around great season.  I really enjoyed it. 

rob_lewis
rob_lewis GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/25/18 11:08 p.m.

Technically 112 days.....  :D?

 

Although the top three teams dominated again, I thought it was a great season.  Lots of front pack swaps at the first of the year and the mid pack guys seem to dice it up pretty well.  Looking forward to next year with young, quick drivers in the top teams (Gasley and LeClerc), new motors for teams, return of the Pole, Kimi in a Sauber (with, what I hope is a "I don't care I'm just going to go all out every time" attitude kinda like at Lotus) and new aero packages to further mix things up.

 

Wonder if F1 will finally release their super cool online app...... 

-Rob

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