Get well, Lucky…

Man, I really enjoy Lucky's videos/personality. Hope the dude gets better quickly. 

Tom Suddard said:

Our business requires our audience to be 1. alive and ....

I don't know why but this really made me laugh.

There is clearly a political aspect to it in some cases, but it's also clearly not the only aspect.  We have an issue is CA (as does every other state) with certain definable groups not getting vaccinated and I can assure you, it's absolutely not political for them (at least not in the way most tend to assume).

Minor point:  To be clear, it has never been the case that being vaccinated will prevent you from getting the disease.  As with any other vaccination, it just helps you fight it off effectively.

As for Lucky, I wish him well, he seems like he is doing OK (we are much better at treating this now).  I find him a bit more interesting to watch then the dark haired ex-drifter guy.  Both are super knowledgeable but lucky seems a bit more humble.

BTW - I do wish that entire gang would spend a bit less time on water cooled V8's.  There are other types of motors out there! 

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to Tom Suddard :

It's your board so I get it, but I guarantee you're only letting it stand because of your political leanings. If a bunch of posts here were anti vax, you'd block it as political. That being said, no clue why people don't get them. You want to poke me so I don't die, poke away. 

This is only political because someone made it political.  Otherwise it's just science and health.  And a science/health discussion is generally a good thing to have.  That way, we can have logical discussions around the data for and against getting the vaccine.

Now that it's a political discussion, it's an easy way to broom it under the rug.

Personally, we weighed the fact that it's not approved and the side effects to the overall benefit/ reduction of risk of death and spreading to vunerable people.   Wasn't a hard decisions in that regards.  

Lucky is lucky that he can post that he should have been vaxed.  And I do know that the odds of dying is far less than the odds of recovering, let alone even get sick.  But the odds of dying are high enough.

His shows made it easier for me to tolerate being home all the time, too.  So I'm happy that he's recovering, and we can see more of their work.  WRT Adrian's thread- seeing their work kind of helps me not work on my cars- which I'm tired of doing, too.  

aircooled said:

 

BTW - I do wish that entire gang would spend a bit less time on water cooled V8's.  There are other types of motors out there! 

They are kind of in a major pickle there- being Hod Rod and all....  

Everything that agrees with you is science and fact and well-supported logic. Everything that disagrees with you is political. 

I work with a lot of people with less intelligence than Lucky and now I share an open office with them.

Hope he gets well soon and maybe his example makes other consider doing what he now says he should have done.

OK since we are commenting here are some things to be aware of / food for thought:

I work for a large school district with a large immigrant population as well as living in a community that is 50% Hispanic: the majority of the people come from countries where the governments are highly corrupt and the medical care is sub standard so they neither trust the government nor the medical profession. Many of these people are first generation Americans and so the memories of how things ran back home are very fresh in their minds. 

My wife is black and her family is originally from Alabama; she and her family have not forgotten things like the Tuskegee Experiment (leaving men with syphilis untreated to see what happened), people like Margaret Sanger,  as well as court ordered sterilizations, plus medical care that bordered on indifferent to criminally negligent. Her family is highly educated but they are gun shy because of things that happened from the 20s through to the 70s.

Make note I am not anti-vax but people need to keep in mind there is a whole sub-set of people that are fearful of the vaccine and have very valid reasons to be fearful. You cannot dismiss this. From their point of view you are asking them to trust groups that have lied to and actively hurt them, all for a disease from which 98% of people survive. This is where they are at and when they see government officials & medical professionals vilifying them, they withdraw even further.  

These are just some of the reasons why I thought it prudent to not to discuss this; it's a highly emotional issue and many people want to spin this into it's those "conspiracy nuts"  or "selfish" or "ignorant" people. The situation is far more nuanced than that. 

                                                                                                                                             Tom

PS; Get well Lucky.

aircooled said:

There is clearly a political aspect to it in some cases, but it's also clearly not the only aspect.  We have an issue is CA (as does every other state) with certain definable groups not getting vaccinated and I can assure you, it's absolutely not political for them (at least not in the way most tend to assume).

Minor point:  To be clear, it has never been the case that being vaccinated will prevent you from getting the disease.  As with any other vaccination, it just helps you fight it off effectively.

As for Lucky, I wish him well, he seems like he is doing OK (we are much better at treating this now).  I find him a bit more interesting to watch then the dark haired ex-drifter guy.  Both are super knowledgeable but lucky seems a bit more humble.

BTW - I do wish that entire gang would spend a bit less time on water cooled V8's.  There are other types of motors out there! 

Yes. Water cooled V12's and water cooled in line sixes 

Tom1200 said:

OK since we are commenting here are some things to be aware of / food for thought:

I work for a large school district with a large immigrant population as well as living in a community that is 50% Hispanic: the majority of the people come from countries where the governments are highly corrupt and the medical care is sub standard so they neither trust the government nor the medical profession. Many of these people are first generation Americans and so the memories of how things ran back home are very fresh in their minds. 

My wife is black and her family is originally from Alabama; she and her family have not forgotten things like the Tuskegee Experiment (leaving men with syphilis untreated to see what happened), people like Margaret Sanger,  as well as court ordered sterilizations, plus medical care that bordered on indifferent to criminally negligent. Her family is highly educated but they are gun shy because of things that happened from the 20s through to the 70s.

Make note I am not anti-vax but people need to keep in mind there is a whole sub-set of people that are fearful of the vaccine and have very valid reasons to be fearful. You cannot dismiss this. From their point of view you are asking them to trust groups that have lied to and actively hurt them, all for a disease from which 98% of people survive. This is where they are at and when they see government officials & medical professionals vilifying them, they withdraw even further.  

These are just some of the reasons why I thought it prudent to not to discuss this; it's a highly emotional issue and many people want to spin this into it's those "conspiracy nuts"  or "selfish" or "ignorant" people. The situation is far more nuanced than that. 

                                                                                                                                             Tom

PS; Get well Lucky.

   

I've always thought that health is based on Science and fact while politics is about opinions. 
I'm wary of those who attempt to co-mingle the two. 

Steve_Jones said:

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

I work with a lot of people with less intelligence than Lucky and now I share an open office with them.

Hope he gets well soon and maybe his example makes other consider doing what he now says he should have done.

So now any0ne that did not get the shot is "less intelligent"? Is that what you're saying?

Certainly willfully ignorant, unless there are underlying health issues preventing them from getting the shot(s).

In reply to frenchyd :

Going back to the Tuskegee Experiment, remember actual scientists allowed syphilis to go untreated just to see what the end stage effects were. This at a time when the scientists could have easily cured it. Other scientists  in the 20s and up to the late 50s  advocated for the sterilization of Black people.   

So when some of my wife's  family members hear "top scientists" are saying X, the understandable reaction is top scientists gave us syphilis & tried to sterilize us. Again one cannot dismiss this.  Then throw in the fact that some people have had very severe reactions to the vaccine, sure it's a very low percentage but it has happened and so people (rightly or wrongly) see history repeating itself. There are no politics involved in these reactions; the mistrust is based on fact.  

Also note this isn't isolated; I was on a call with a hospital official from Texas and we had a discussion about the mistrust within minority communities. The hospital group has been working with church groups to try and get the word out but it's slow going. Again the mistrust is founded in people's previous life experience.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

I encourage you to read what I've posted. I understand where you are coming from but as I said people's motivations in this situation are far more nuanced.  I haven't even mentioned the relatives who lived through the troubles in Ireland; they too, with good reason, are mistrustful. 

So this isn't all willful ignorance it's more complex than that. 

Amazing to observe in this thread that when you take content from Facebook and share it somewhere else, a Facebook level of discourse seems to follow the content.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Going back to the Tuskegee Experiment, remember actual scientists allowed syphilis to go untreated just to see what the end stage effects were. This at a time when the scientists could have easily cured it. Other scientists  in the 20s and up to the late 50s  advocated for the sterilization of Black people.   

So when some of my wife's  family members hear "top scientists" are saying X, the understandable reaction is top scientists gave us syphilis & tried to sterilize us. Again one cannot dismiss this.  Then throw in the fact that some people have had very severe reactions to the vaccine, sure it's a very low percentage but it has happened and so people (rightly or wrongly) see history repeating itself. There are no politics involved in these reactions; the mistrust is based on fact.  

Also note this isn't isolated; I was on a call with a hospital official from Texas and we had a discussion about the mistrust within minority communities. The hospital group has been working with church groups to try and get the word out but it's slow going. Again the mistrust is founded in people's previous life experience.

Very well put.  Though both cases benefit from lack of knowledge.  The case of syphilis was a local . Not a global event. 
    I'm not familiar with the Irish event. 
    I'd rather believe that much of those who failed to get the shot did so out of lack of time. Lack of insurance, Maybe some fear of those old needles that punched a painful hole in your arm. ( it's less than a mosquito bite now )  Or lack of reasoned discussion with trusted, knowledgeable people. 
     In Asia it's common to go outdoors wearing a mask when infections are high.    As a school bus driver I frequently would get colds, flu, pneumonia, sometime double Pneumonia. From the 500+ kids I carried daily.  I'd tough it out with over the counter stuff . Until the Pandemic.  I got my shots as soon as eligible. And what's better wearing that mask kept me from colds,  flu,  pneumonia, etc. first time in 8 years 

 I agree that it's nuanced. And doesn't warrant name calling or lumping every person into derogatory groups. 

Tom1200 said:

OK since we are commenting here are some things to be aware of / food for thought:

I work for a large school district with a large immigrant population as well as living in a community that is 50% Hispanic: the majority of the people come from countries where the governments are highly corrupt and the medical care is sub standard so they neither trust the government nor the medical profession. Many of these people are first generation Americans and so the memories of how things ran back home are very fresh in their minds. 

My wife is black and her family is originally from Alabama; she and her family have not forgotten things like the Tuskegee Experiment (leaving men with syphilis untreated to see what happened), people like Margaret Sanger,  as well as court ordered sterilizations, plus medical care that bordered on indifferent to criminally negligent. Her family is highly educated but they are gun shy because of things that happened from the 20s through to the 70s.

Make note I am not anti-vax but people need to keep in mind there is a whole sub-set of people that are fearful of the vaccine and have very valid reasons to be fearful. You cannot dismiss this. From their point of view you are asking them to trust groups that have lied to and actively hurt them, all for a disease from which 98% of people survive. This is where they are at and when they see government officials & medical professionals vilifying them, they withdraw even further.  

These are just some of the reasons why I thought it prudent to not to discuss this; it's a highly emotional issue and many people want to spin this into it's those "conspiracy nuts"  or "selfish" or "ignorant" people. The situation is far more nuanced than that. 

                                                                                                                                             Tom

PS; Get well Lucky.

   

This is really well put and I think some more open discussion of these things at a high level (from Govts, large employers, etc) would help. 

When you keep saying the same thing and the other party isn't responding in the way you anticipate, that's a good time to ask yourself if you are listening. 

Tom1200 said:

OK since we are commenting here are some things to be aware of / food for thought:

I work for a large school district with a large immigrant population as well as living in a community that is 50% Hispanic: the majority of the people come from countries where the governments are highly corrupt and the medical care is sub standard so they neither trust the government nor the medical profession. Many of these people are first generation Americans and so the memories of how things ran back home are very fresh in their minds. 

My wife is black and her family is originally from Alabama; she and her family have not forgotten things like the Tuskegee Experiment (leaving men with syphilis untreated to see what happened), people like Margaret Sanger,  as well as court ordered sterilizations, plus medical care that bordered on indifferent to criminally negligent. Her family is highly educated but they are gun shy because of things that happened from the 20s through to the 70s.

Make note I am not anti-vax but people need to keep in mind there is a whole sub-set of people that are fearful of the vaccine and have very valid reasons to be fearful. You cannot dismiss this. From their point of view you are asking them to trust groups that have lied to and actively hurt them, all for a disease from which 98% of people survive. This is where they are at and when they see government officials & medical professionals vilifying them, they withdraw even further.  

These are just some of the reasons why I thought it prudent to not to discuss this; it's a highly emotional issue and many people want to spin this into it's those "conspiracy nuts"  or "selfish" or "ignorant" people. The situation is far more nuanced than that. 

                                                                                                                                             Tom

PS; Get well Lucky.

   

Thanks for this. A very solidly worded window into someone else's perspective. Sometimes, especially on the internet, it's hard to know someone's justification for a decision when in your own eyes that decision is "obvious".

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I've been on the front lines of getting services in place the entire time and the one thing we've tried to do is be flexible on our approach. It's been a case of; OK we have a group who are reluctant to get vaccinated, fine, in the meantime what else can we do to make them safer. 

As you've so astutely pointed out, if something isn't working then you need to pivot. 

I interrupt the E36 M3 show to announce that I just read on Instagram that Lucky has turned the corner and is feeling much better.

You may now all go back to droning on about the vaccine.

Tom Suddard said:

I don't see the need to avoid discussing the benefits of getting vaccinated. It's in Lucky's post. It's not politics, it's not arguing, it's safety in the garage. No different from telling people about the Harbor Freight jackstand recall or how it's a bad idea to open the radiator while your cooling system is under pressure.

Our business requires our audience to be 1. alive and 2. able to go to events. Vaccines provide the simplest way to achieve those goals. And if you'd like to spread vaccine misinformation, please choose another platform.

Lots of us on staff enjoyed watching Lucky's shows, and we all really hope he's back in the shop soon. Get well soon Lucky!

You guys are the best. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Death is not a "political leaning"

Anti-vaxxers ignore basic science, and should be blocked, since they are killing people.   But being anti-science seems weird, since a lot of what happens on GRM is science - "I tried 3 more PSI in the front tires and my lap times went down.  Think I'll try another couple and see what happens..."

Kinda sciency, isn't it?

Get well soon, Lucky

The situation really is that simple. I can understand hesitancy early on, but enough people have taken it and not exploded that there is no reason to be hesitant now. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Everything that agrees with you is science and fact and well-supported logic. Everything that disagrees with you is political. 

Science is based on disagreement backed up with data (not feelings or kneejerk reactions, which are just strong feelings).  That's rather what scientific method is.  If you have a conjecture, back it up with evidence based on repeatable testing.  Otherwise, you're just some guy with an opinion.