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Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
2/10/21 11:53 a.m.
wspohn said:

LNF engine = 360 lbs.incl. turbo

GT6 = 401

LS series = 478

Ford 5.0 V8 with aluminum heads and manifold 424Lbs. It is also possible to get another 15lbs off the motor with some more extreme measures. 

The 5 speed trans weighs 78lbs.  

Most of the 6 speed transmissions are around 100lbs,

So an Ecotec and 6 speed may be 40-50lbs lighter than a V8 5 speed swap.

50lbs in street car won't be noticeable.

 

 

 

 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/10/21 12:06 p.m.

Honda K series - light weight, good aftermarket, and found in a bazillion Accords in the junkyard.

The GM 60 degree V6 is also interesting for its ability to fit a lot of displacement into a very small package.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
2/10/21 2:25 p.m.
stroker said:
bobzilla said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I was jut thinking this. I kinda want to swap one into a miata just because.

 

I would tread carefully with that engine.  I have it on good authority they warp cylinder heads consistently and way too frequently...

Oh I'm certain it;s a pile of poo. It was designed for/by Daewoo. I just like the idea of a small cube, modernish inline 6 under the hood of a small light car.

 

 

Spitsix
Spitsix GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
2/10/21 2:29 p.m.

In reply to purplepeopleeater : Joe just sold the car a couple of weeks ago  

 

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
2/10/21 2:39 p.m.

So what about the Chrysler 3.6 V6?  Doesn't it come in longitudinal  situations?  

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
2/10/21 3:12 p.m.
bobzilla said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I was jut thinking this. I kinda want to swap one into a miata just because.

 

A modern take on a Healey 3000.....kinda....sorta.....if you squint enough. I'd just like to hear a Miata with a nice smooth revving straight six.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
2/10/21 3:15 p.m.

In reply to wspohn :

LS series = 478 for the iron block versions. Just under 400 with an aluminum block.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/10/21 4:48 p.m.

legitimate suggestion for a 3400/3500 gm 60 degree. This is a picture of my miata that i swapped a 2001 Buick rendezvous 3400 into, using a 3800 camaro trans for the challenge. It pulled 9th two years in a row, and ran 14.2@96mph all motor.

The engine sits behind axle centerline with stock firewall. ~200/200. Cheap to procure and replace. The trans is readily available as well. A bit of tuning and an aftermarket cam wakes them.up tremendously. The fwd like i used have 6 bolt mains/structural oil pan, aluminum cathedral port heads, distributorless ignition,  sequential injection, cable throttle. etc. It makes a LOT of sense, and is a good medium displacement low external dimension package. 

I had planned this exact swap into an mgb. A gt6 would probably be even easier. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
2/10/21 5:05 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

So how much did the car weigh after the conversion?

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/10/21 5:07 p.m.
dherr (Forum Supporter) said:
Thinking the smart choice would be to do what TVR Scott is doing and go with a Ecoboost 2.0 and a Miata NC 5 or 6 speed. I know we can't get the controllers/harness from Ford Performance, but the alternatives from SCS-Delta in the UK look like a good solution.

I feel so smart now...

To correct a bit of misinformation listed earlier, a 2.0 Ecoboost does not weigh more than a pushrod V8.  With NC 6 spd transmission attached:

On the control side, getting a PATS removal on a regular Focus ST ecu is a doable option.  Just after my control pack order came thru I had a HP Tuners guy tell me he could do this.

Wiring harnesses would be a bit of work, but you've got mad skillz.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/10/21 5:34 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Honestly,  i have never weighed it.  But i added bracing, subframe connectors, rollbar, etc.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
2/10/21 8:40 p.m.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

To be fair I said "often" weigh as much as a V8. Wspohn said the 2.0  Ecoboost weighs 360 and I based my subsequent comments on that. Also in your picture it appears that the motor is not complete (various plumbing & no intercooler) I'm assuming there is another 20-40lbs worth of stuff for the motor to be considered comp!ete?

A 5.0 Ford with 5 speed is going to be between 485 & 500lbs depending on set up.  

The complete Ecoboost still weighs 80-85% of what the V8 does. 

With that said I still like my kooky idea of using the 3 cylinder Ecoboost.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
2/10/21 10:31 p.m.

I do like the idea of an MRZ/Duratec with an NC Miata transmission. The advantage of the Ecoboost is that the turbocharger and tune are very factory, verse doing it all aftermarket. 

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/ford-2-0-ecoboost-management-kit looks like it solves the ECU issue. The engine has to be shorter that the GT6, so perhaps it would be able to be mounted behind the shock towers. Perhaps TVR Scott can share some physical dimensions before I go pick one up at the junk yard.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
2/10/21 10:35 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

legitimate suggestion for a 3400/3500 gm 60 degree. This is a picture of my miata that i swapped a 2001 Buick rendezvous 3400 into, using a 3800 camaro trans for the challenge. It pulled 9th two years in a row, and ran 14.2@96mph all motor.

The engine sits behind axle centerline with stock firewall. ~200/200. Cheap to procure and replace. The trans is readily available as well. A bit of tuning and an aftermarket cam wakes them.up tremendously. The fwd like i used have 6 bolt mains/structural oil pan, aluminum cathedral port heads, distributorless ignition,  sequential injection, cable throttle. etc. It makes a LOT of sense, and is a good medium displacement low external dimension package. 

I had planned this exact swap into an mgb. A gt6 would probably be even easier. 

Not ruling out a GM 60 Degree V6, They do seem to fit well in these tight sports cars, will do more research.

stroker
stroker UberDork
2/11/21 6:21 a.m.

Isn't there a thread about Jet Ski engines that would be pretty applicable to this situation?

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/11/21 6:26 a.m.

In reply to stroker :

A GT6 is probably too heavy for a snowmobile engine.

I've also only seen those used in mid-engine configuration and there is literally zero "mid" space between the rear axle and the driver's seat in a GT6/Spitfire.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/11/21 7:28 a.m.
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

legitimate suggestion for a 3400/3500 gm 60 degree. This is a picture of my miata that i swapped a 2001 Buick rendezvous 3400 into, using a 3800 camaro trans for the challenge. It pulled 9th two years in a row, and ran 14.2@96mph all motor.

The engine sits behind axle centerline with stock firewall. ~200/200. Cheap to procure and replace. The trans is readily available as well. A bit of tuning and an aftermarket cam wakes them.up tremendously. The fwd like i used have 6 bolt mains/structural oil pan, aluminum cathedral port heads, distributorless ignition,  sequential injection, cable throttle. etc. It makes a LOT of sense, and is a good medium displacement low external dimension package. 

I had planned this exact swap into an mgb. A gt6 would probably be even easier. 

Do you have a build thread on that?  What did you do for engine management?

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/11/21 7:39 a.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

Yup!

I used the factory rendezvous ecm. Tubed via mailing it to sinister(?) Performance and stock harness cut down.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/11/21 7:47 a.m.
spitfirebill said:

So what about the Chrysler 3.6 V6?  Doesn't it come in longitudinal  situations?  

Yes - there were some years where Chrysler offered the Pentastar V6 in their entire lineup except the FWD Dart (and even then, you could swap it in using Chrysler 200 parts) and transverse engined Jeeps. They used it in Chargers, 300s, Challengers, pickups, SUVs, everything. Main reason I didn't mention it myself is that it's a lot larger than the 60 degree GM V6.

RossD
RossD MegaDork
2/11/21 7:48 a.m.
spitfirebill said:

So what about the Chrysler 3.6 V6?  Doesn't it come in longitudinal  situations?  

Wranglers, Grand Cherokees, Ram trucks, Durangos.

The Wrangler is the only manual trans that I can think of and is a Mercedes Benz NSG370 six speed. The same basic trans in the manual Chrysler Crossfire. I haven't found anyone that has mixed and matched the parts but it seems at least plausible that you could get a car shaped RWD manual for the Pentastar.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/11/21 8:05 a.m.
dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

I do like the idea of an MRZ/Duratec with an NC Miata transmission. The advantage of the Ecoboost is that the turbocharger and tune are very factory, verse doing it all aftermarket. 

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/ford-2-0-ecoboost-management-kit looks like it solves the ECU issue. The engine has to be shorter that the GT6, so perhaps it would be able to be mounted behind the shock towers. Perhaps TVR Scott can share some physical dimensions before I go pick one up at the junk yard.

My tape-measure is at your disposal!

This engine is indeed quite a bit shorter than the Triumph 6.  It's a little taller too, which could cause problems.  The big high pressure fuel pump has given some fit problems on other swaps.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
2/11/21 9:23 a.m.

The width between the GT6/Spitfire shock turrets is probably the biggest issue. I have three cars, one with the engine pulled, so I'll measure between the turrets and get some dimensions from you. If we can fit it behind the steering rack, that would probably allow the motor to be lower, so height might not be a factor as it is with the Triumph 6 with two cylinders in front of the rack. Just in the planning stages, but have two rust free GT6's to work with, just figuring out which one will be used for the swap.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/11/21 9:50 a.m.

In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :

Shoot a couple pics too, please.

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
2/11/21 10:46 a.m.

So the first two pictures are the MK2 that is a restored chassis, rust free bodyshell in primer, bonnet. Great start for either a restoration or engine swap and restoration. The chassis is painted and looks to be rebuilt with spax shocks, but was just left in a dusty barn for many years in New Mexico.  I just put it in storage, but will pull it out once the snow is gone to clean every thing and reassemble to figure out what is missing.

The green MK3 is as rust free as they come and about 95% complete, so less parts to go chase. It is covered in dirt from sitting in the desert, but just needs a battery box.  My plan is to do R160 rear ends on both cars and then restore one to relatively stock condition as I have an overdrive transmission and a 3rd MK3 for all the drivetrain parts and the other car will have some sort of restomod done on it.  Won't happen until later this summer, but I always like to be planning these projects in my head and jumping on the parts I need long before the project gets started. 

bluej (Forum Supporter)
bluej (Forum Supporter) UberDork
2/11/21 11:47 a.m.

Dave, I'll try to get some measurements of my 2.5 this weekend as well. It's setup for longitudinal install with an NC 5spd attached, NC intake manifold and ranger pan (rear sump).  Figure it may help people digging up this thread for reference later whatever path you go.

Good info on this page, too: Duratec in detail

 

 

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