accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/8/19 11:49 a.m.

Hey all,

So I installed my fancy new wilwood miata hubs, I love the design, but I'm a bit unsure of how to get it correctly adjusted. 

The assembly instructions state : "Torque the nut to 35 ft-lb. while turningthe hub by hand. Backoff the nut until loose, turn the hub and tighten the nut sufficiently by hand to allow .001" to .003" of hub end play."

So I did as stated (literally using my had to turn the bare socket), and without the wheel on it felt good. When putting on the wheel and checking for play I could feel a slight knock. I then used a wrench to go a bit tighter and that removed the play, but the hubs feel a bit too tight - what's the strategy here? Good news is they're super easy to adjust even with the wheels on since the cap sticks out through my wheel. 

Help?

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/8/19 12:37 p.m.

you need a dial indicator and base to adjust to 1 to 3 thou..  Really tough to "feel" that tolerance.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
10/8/19 12:55 p.m.

Important thing to remember here: As these aluminum hubs warm up the clearance in the bearings decreases. If you set them cold with no play at all they will have too much preload when they have absorbed some heat from the brakes. Where does Willwood want the .003 measured? At the O.D. of the hub? or at the O.D. of the brake disc? Big important difference there. And as FBC says, use a dial indicator.

Rodan
Rodan Dork
10/8/19 1:04 p.m.

Watching with interest, as I'm looking at these, or possibly the MiataHubs for my next set of front hubs.

spandak
spandak Reader
10/8/19 2:02 p.m.

Is this not a situation where you can spin the nut until it juuuust starts to apply pressure and pin it? 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/8/19 5:12 p.m.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

It says "hub end play" - I'm not sure really, I assumed it meant the very edge of the hub? I guess I'll email tech support and see.

Dial indicator and base ordered. 

Though I'm not sure what/where I can attach a magnetic base and have it measure the end of the hub....

einy
einy HalfDork
10/8/19 7:18 p.m.

Attach the mag base to a steel wheel ramp or something else with enough mass to keep it from moving.  Place the steel thing close to what you want to measure.

Use the same setup some later date when measuring wheel or brake rotor runout.

Endplay means movement in / out parallel to the axle centerline.  Check when dead cold.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/8/19 7:36 p.m.
einy said

Endplay means movement in / out parallel to the axle centerline.  Check when dead cold.

Yes. Agree. Set up indicator so it will.measure in and out movement. Push in and pull out. No more that .003 of total movement. 

APEowner
APEowner Dork
10/8/19 9:19 p.m.

That's just a standard tapered roller bearing setup with an unnecessarily complicated but really cool locking assembly.  Do the preload torque, back the nut off and then run it in with your fingers till it touches, lock it down and call it a day.  Too lose is better than too tight.

slammed200
slammed200 New Reader
10/9/19 9:40 a.m.

Unfortunately too much "hub end play" you will encourage brake pad knockback and dynamic alignment changes on track.  Too tight and they say the bearings will wear out prematurely. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/9/19 9:52 a.m.

In reply to slammed200 :

I think the .001 is supposed to allow for expansion of the aluminum part if what I'm reading above is true. Have you had experience with them? 

stafford1500
stafford1500 Dork
10/9/19 9:58 a.m.
einy said:

Attach the mag base to a steel wheel ramp or something else with enough mass to keep it from moving.  Place the steel thing close to what you want to measure.

Use the same setup some later date when measuring wheel or brake rotor runout.

Endplay means movement in / out parallel to the axle centerline.  Check when dead cold.

Another option is to attach the base to the hub flange and put the indicator nose on the end of the spindle. You are trying to determine the end-play between those two components, so attach you measuring devices to what you are measuring, not some third element that could cause extra error in your readings..

slammed200
slammed200 New Reader
10/9/19 10:16 a.m.

In reply to accordionfolder :

Think about it like this too, take that recommended end play measured at the hub face and move that out to the rotor knocking back your pads in the caliper and you can see how it starts to make sense.  Further extract that out to the edge of the wheel and tire to see how much your camber and toe will be changing while racing.  Wilwood recommends replacing the bearings every 20 hours anyway so maybe run them a little tight to minimize the endplay?

ChasH
ChasH Reader
10/9/19 3:31 p.m.

Adjusted wheel bearings were used with complete success for decades until the pre-assembled hub came along. They are rugged and servicible. If you are racing set the end play to greater figure. Break pad knock back is not a concern when the bearing is correctly assembled. I ran many race cars with this type of bearing without failure or maintenance issues.

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/9/19 4:27 p.m.

Edited myself a bit as I've returned to good sense - I appreciate the input all. I think I'll try the "mount it on the upright" approach and the "stationary object approach" and see how they agree/disagree. I hope I'm overthinking the process, as some of you noted, but I'm just worried about trashing my new shiny (and fairly expensive) hubs. I'm doing the rear with timken bearings and v8r hubs as well, hopefully none of my wheels go on ahead of me separate of the car anytime soon. None too soon either - the front and rear left sides were both feeling REALLY tired/looking bad after beating on them for 5 hours at NCM this past weekend. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/10/19 11:37 p.m.
slammed200 said:

In reply to accordionfolder :

Think about it like this too, take that recommended end play measured at the hub face and move that out to the rotor knocking back your pads in the caliper and you can see how it starts to make sense.  Further extract that out to the edge of the wheel and tire to see how much your camber and toe will be changing while racing.  Wilwood recommends replacing the bearings every 20 hours anyway so maybe run them a little tight to minimize the endplay?

Just to clarify, wilwood recommends inspecting and repacking the bearings every 20 hours, not replacing.

 

"We recommend removing, inspecting, and repacking the bearing after every 20 hours of track time"

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
10/11/19 7:37 a.m.

Aluminum hub?  Eek.  Some things just need to be made from steel.

Get off my lawn.

ChasH
ChasH Reader
10/11/19 9:27 a.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

Aluminum hub?  Eek.  Some things just need to be made from steel.

Get off my lawn.

Porsche and others have used aluminum hubs with complete success for decades. Most bearing problems with adjusted bearing are the result of poor practices in setting play and packing with grease. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/11/19 10:21 a.m.
ChasH
ChasH Reader
10/11/19 11:12 a.m.

In reply to accordionfolder :

We are discussing front hubs here. Those videos are of rear hub failures. Front and rear hubs are very different.

accordionfolder
accordionfolder Dork
10/11/19 11:46 a.m.

In reply to ChasH :

I was responding to the - steel is real - comment. The rear's are steel as well.

ChasH
ChasH Reader
10/11/19 12:14 p.m.

There's nothing wrong with aluminum at the front. At the rear, steel is needed due to size constraints, among other concerns. However, race cars need regular inspections of these parts no matter what the material.

Bumper sticker engineering has never impressed me.

 

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