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dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 11:47 a.m.

My son and I have managed to booger up the bolts that attach the re-centering plate to the right rear of our MkIV GTI. Being novices, any advice how to get them backed out?

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/25/21 11:49 a.m.

Drill the heads off, remove the piece and unscrew the remains with vice grips.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
11/25/21 11:55 a.m.

Or weld a nut onto it.

No matter how you get them off you will need to replace them.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/25/21 12:14 p.m.

I'd start with an impact driver. 

Not this kind

 

 

but this kind.

 

If you're lucky that's all it will take.  If  you're unlucky you'll have to get more serious.  The next step would be to find a torx bit that fits snugly in the buggered up holes and use that with the impact driver.  If that doesn't work then you'll have to get more serious with either drilling or welding on a nut as suggested above.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
11/25/21 12:22 p.m.

FYI that's not a hex head bolt. It's a flat socket cap screw


Three ways to do it: Drill the head off as suggested, hit the head as hard as you can and try to remove with an Allen key, heat the head red hot, let cool, remove with an Allen key. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/25/21 12:36 p.m.

In reply to Mr. Peabody :

This x2

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 12:41 p.m.

Find a (sacrificial) Torx slightly larger than the allen wrench, hammer it into the "bolt", remove as normal. Replace with a new bolt (or don't, no judgement).

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
11/25/21 12:48 p.m.

Or JB weld a hex head socket in there...

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
11/25/21 1:05 p.m.

I've used the last two methods successfully.  Tori bits are also 6 pt.  The edges of them being round they grab both sides of the flat.  Often they work better than a hex bit.

Or get some cheap hex bits or wrenches at harbor freight and JB Weld them into the heads.  
 

If neither of those work them the drills (left hand bits) should be employed.  

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 1:23 p.m.

Thanks everyone. We don't have an impact driver but we'll probably start there.

Once we do have them out, where do we buy new flat socket cap screws?

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
11/25/21 1:26 p.m.

In reply to dyintorace :

Any decent hardware store should have them.  Probably not Ace or Home Depot/Lowe's, but something a bit more hardcore.  Grainger, Fastenal, etc.  McMaster damn sure will, and you could probably find them on Amazon.

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 1:28 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:

In reply to dyintorace :

Any decent hardware store should have them.  Probably not Ace or Home Depot/Lowe's, but something a bit more hardcore.  Grainger, Fastenal, etc.  McMaster damn sure will, and you could probably find them on Amazon.

One of the downsides of living in Gainesville. Lack of good true hardware stores. 

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/25/21 2:12 p.m.

Harbor Freight has those impact drivers. 

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/21 2:13 p.m.

After doing this exact same thing, anytime I see these now, I start with the impact driver. I think they're designed to round themselves out unless you use one.

The suggestions offered so far should get them out now.

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 2:24 p.m.
Slippery said:

Harbor Freight has those impact drivers. 

Awesome. At least we have one of those! smiley

mainlandboy
mainlandboy Reader
11/25/21 2:26 p.m.

Carefully drill a hole through the center and use an extractor:

https://harborfreight.com/screw-extractor-and-left-hand-drill-bit-combo-set-10-pc-61981.html

Jesse Ransom
Jesse Ransom GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
11/25/21 2:32 p.m.
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:

Replace with a new bolt (or don't, no judgement).

Oh no. Total judgement. Absolutely judgement.

Those are way too far gone to get properly tightened if they even exist after removal. If they happen not to fall out and kill whoever has it at the time, whoever's in there next (including you) will curse you to the corners of the universe when they have to extract the even-more-boogered bolts.

Apologies if that was a joke... And also for not providing sources for replacement bolts; I suspect the ticket is finding an exploded diagram with part numbers and sourcing the VW bolts, though you could also look for confirmation that the "010.9" marking denotes a Class 10.9 fastener and look somewhere like McMaster-Carr, boltdepot.com, Pegasus, etc... Er, here's a pertinent section, I think, at McMaster-Carr, BUT I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR that I'm not sure that that marking denotes Class 10.9 fasteners, and it looks like a pretty mission-critical piece.

Depending on your time, budget, confidence, etc... you might just call the dealer and ask them to help you identify those bolts. It's likely that even at dealer prices that may be worth the time spent figuring out how else to get them.

Surely someone here knows a good source for VW hardware with ID help.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
11/25/21 3:06 p.m.

Got a Dremel with a cut off wheel? Carefully cut a slot with said wheel as deep as you can without dinging the plate. Use the biggest Stright blade screw driver, impact driver/ugga-dugga.

Folgers
Folgers New Reader
11/25/21 3:26 p.m.

The head looks large enough, I bet you get those out with a hammer and chisel. 

A tap or two straight down then start hitting it on one side at a low angle in a counter clockwise direction. 

LopRacer
LopRacer Dork
11/25/21 5:17 p.m.

Looks like you can get a decent impact driver at Advance auto parts too.  It really is the go-to tool for the job.

Lisle impact driver

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
11/25/21 5:19 p.m.

Assuming they're metric and depending on the size, you may be able to force an Imperial size driver in the hole.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/25/21 5:28 p.m.

Those are so far past an impact driver it's not even funny.  Drill a hole in the middle, probably about 3/8" until the head falls off, or use a center punch.  Go out about halfway between the hole and the edge, hit it with the center punch, then gradually tip the punch over until you are driving the screws the direction that involves "off".

You obviously need new screws, and since they come from ze fazerland, just go to the Volkswagen store.  They generally stock almost every bolt in the car, because Germans are very bad at building bolts that will come undone, but very good at applying thread glue.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/25/21 5:48 p.m.
mainlandboy said:

Carefully drill a hole through the center and use an extractor:

https://harborfreight.com/screw-extractor-and-left-hand-drill-bit-combo-set-10-pc-61981.html

I've never had one of those not make my situation a while lot worse.

Op can also probably use a Dremel cutting wheel to cut a slot into the head and remove with a large flathead bit.

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/25/21 5:50 p.m.

These are aftermarket "re-center"plates made by Uro Tuning. See here: Fabless re-center plates

Should I start with an impact driver? Or go straight to drilling? I've never done either and don't know where to start. 

ShawnG
ShawnG UltimaDork
11/25/21 5:54 p.m.

If I were doing this in the shop, on the customer's dime, I'd have drilled those heads and hand new fasteners on the way already.

The bolts are not useable anymore, no point in trying to save them by using an impact driver.

This is one of those times that high-quality tools are really important. Good allen keys will go a long way to reducing problems like this. Buy some Bondhus allen keys, they're the guys who make them for Snap-On. I've put cheater bars on them and not rounded or broken them.

Use a drill bit the same diameter as the bolt shank, that way the head will just pop off when you hit bottom and you won't cut into the plate.

Use a quality drill and some lubricant, go slow so you don't burn up the bit.

If Loctite was used during the install, you may need to apply some heat to get the stubs out.

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