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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/26/14 2:42 p.m.

The Mazdaspeed Protege was thanks to Callaway. The Mazdaspeed Miata was because OEs are held to very different standards than aftermarket tuners, both internally and externally. A lot of what they did makes perfect sense in that light. It's been good for the aftermarket, that's for sure. Anyhow...

Alfa, I really don't know a lot about the Lincoln V6 car. Never seen it, never seen any shots underneath - how realistic was it as a repeatable swap? Memory says it was an off-the-shelf transmission/bellhousing setup. Tall intake manifolds seem to be a consistent problem in V6 swaps, probably due to the fact that almost all of them come from transverse donors.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
6/26/14 3:03 p.m.

The Mazdaspeed Protege was thanks to Callaway after Mazda took the cheapass hammer to it as far as I know.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/26/14 3:12 p.m.

That's not how it seemed to play out back in the day, although I understand it's the current explanation amongst people who own them For example, using steel IC piping (as on the prototype) would have required crash testing the vehicle again. I'm pretty sure that would have pushed the price of the car beyond what the cheapass target market would have been willing to pay. I remember the turbo wasn't a well-specified one, and that wasn't Mazda...

It was thanks to that car that all subsequent Mazdaspeeds are in-house only. There was actually an RFQ going around for the MSM development before then, with the goal to be "faster than an S2000".

Anyhow, we're off topic. Back to desecrating Miatas with inappropriate cylinder counts.

beans
beans Dork
6/26/14 5:25 p.m.

Honestly, I'm really glad Keith is posting in this thread. He has a VERY unique perspective on this matter. If the swap kit comes to the market, and I actually get off my ass on doing something cool with a car, this swap will be the thing I do.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/26/14 7:30 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Swap? Probably pretty easy- but bear in mind that the whole point of the project was NOT to demonstrate an engine swap, but to demonstrate a Ford V6 in a Miata chassis- be it a Mercury or Lincoln.

The big problem with the idea as an actual swap is availability of V6 Manual Lincoln LS's. Those are less common than Miatas are.

Driving it was pretty cool- when I did, I thought how cool a V6 Alfa would be for a Challenge car. The trans did distract from the Miata part- it was whole thing from the Lincoln- shifter and all.

We showed it, a V12 DB7, and a Harley Hauler at a car show at the EPA.

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog SuperDork
6/26/14 8:25 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: We showed it (V6 swapped Miata), a V12 DB7, and a Harley Hauler at a car show at the EPA.

Most improbable sentence EVER!

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
6/26/14 8:46 p.m.
dculberson wrote: I can get one of the 3.5 Honda motors today for $170 + $50 core charge from Pick N Pull. I can't say I've ever seen an LS motor that was complete at Pick N Pull. Now, motor price is only the beginning, but that's one heck of a cheap beginning. Once swaps get more common I'm sure the motors will become a bit more scarce.

Screw Miatas, someone design this swap for e30s :)

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
6/26/14 10:51 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: What trans does it use? What rear end?

Me thinks someone didn't read the few paragraphs about it.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/27/14 1:12 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Anyhow, we're off topic. Back to desecrating Miatas with inappropriate cylinder counts.

V8s are old hat, when are you going to come out with a kit to swap a V10 or a V12 into a Miata? :)

giskard
giskard New Reader
6/27/14 1:53 a.m.

Veyron V12 swap!

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/27/14 5:38 a.m.
Junkyard_Dog wrote:
alfadriver wrote: We showed it (V6 swapped Miata), a V12 DB7, and a Harley Hauler at a car show at the EPA.
Most improbable sentence EVER!

At the same car show, a 2002/2003/2004 Challenge car was also shown.

Related to this thread, a friend of mine at the EPA has a turbo Miata he built being shown.

unevolved
unevolved Dork
6/27/14 6:15 a.m.
irish44j wrote:
dculberson wrote: I can get one of the 3.5 Honda motors today for $170 + $50 core charge from Pick N Pull. I can't say I've ever seen an LS motor that was complete at Pick N Pull. Now, motor price is only the beginning, but that's one heck of a cheap beginning. Once swaps get more common I'm sure the motors will become a bit more scarce.
Screw Miatas, someone design this swap for e30s :)

Now that would be fun.

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog SuperDork
6/27/14 7:23 a.m.
alfadriver wrote:
Junkyard_Dog wrote:
alfadriver wrote: We showed it (V6 swapped Miata), a V12 DB7, and a Harley Hauler at a car show at the EPA.
Most improbable sentence EVER!
At the same car show, a 2002/2003/2004 Challenge car was also shown. Related to this thread, a friend of mine at the EPA has a turbo Miata he built being shown.

GRM needs to do a feature on the EPA car show.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 HalfDork
6/27/14 7:43 a.m.
giskard wrote: Veyron V12 swap!

:sigh: The Bugatti Veyron has a W16 engine with quad turbochargers. An insurance company or Bugatti, since one may not have been wrecked, would need or want to charge you $200,000 for the engine itself.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/27/14 8:31 a.m.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog:

If they have one again, I will do that.

windsordeluxe
windsordeluxe New Reader
6/27/14 8:31 a.m.

I have a spare Miata and access to a Saturn Vue (Honda J35 powered) that was just turned in for scrap. Hmmmm......must resist.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/27/14 9:47 a.m.
z31maniac wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote: What trans does it use? What rear end?
Me thinks someone didn't read the few paragraphs about it.

Methinks I didn't have the issue in hand at the time. There's the thing about physical print magazines, they need to physically be nearby to be accessed. Subsequent reading of the next five pages of this thread would indicate that I did indeed manage to get a copy to read and we were able to have a reasonable discussion. Anything else to contribute?

Alfa, I know it wasn't intended to be an aftermarket swap, but knowing something about what was done to make it work would help evaluate if it was something that could be done without the considerable resources of an OE. It sounds as if donor availability would be the biggest problem, which is legitimate. Any recollection of available ground clearance or required changes to the steering rack or suspension pickup locations? It's the stuff you can't see with the hood open that's often the hard stuff.

fanfoy
fanfoy HalfDork
6/27/14 9:50 a.m.

I have nothing constructive to add except this maserati V8 swap miata project for sale locally.

Translation:
"Mazda Miata V8 project, 2005 Maserati / Ferrari 4.2 engine with 400 HP with steering wheel mounted sequential transmission. Frame completely re-done, COMPLETE to finish to project, including computers, wireing, fuel cell,10 points cage , etc. No more free time, only worked 6 hours on it since October. blah, blah, blah......"

One of you brave souls should finish it

Carry on.

Driven5
Driven5 HalfDork
6/27/14 9:53 a.m.
alfadriver wrote: The big problem with the idea as an actual swap is availability of V6 Manual Lincoln LS's. Those are less common than Miatas are.

That and the fact that it also requires either a rear end swap or a love of cruising at silly RPM's, with that 1:1 top gear. It would be sort of like driving a turbo NB 6-speed, but without the 6th gear and with even shorter 1st and 2nd gears.

nderwater
nderwater PowerDork
6/27/14 10:08 a.m.
fanfoy wrote: I have nothing constructive to add except this maserati V8 swap miata project for sale locally.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/27/14 10:27 a.m.

Good lord, that's excellent.

unevolved
unevolved Dork
6/28/14 6:02 p.m.

That'd be an awesome project.

noddaz
noddaz GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/28/14 7:47 p.m.

It's something new! It's something different! And until some real feet get on some real pedals in some real cars and tell me it is junk, I am interested... Proceed please and let us know...

peter
peter Dork
6/28/14 9:01 p.m.
fanfoy wrote: I have nothing constructive to add except this maserati V8 swap miata project for sale locally. Translation: "Mazda Miata V8 project, 2005 Maserati / Ferrari 4.2 engine with 400 HP with steering wheel mounted sequential transmission. Frame completely re-done, COMPLETE to finish to project, including computers, wireing, fuel cell,10 points cage , etc. No more free time, only worked 6 hours on it since October. blah, blah, blah......" One of you brave souls should finish it Carry on.

Holy crap! I joked about doing something like this when my Miata was engineless and garaged next to a disused Maserati of that vintage, but someone is actually giving it a try!

It looks like it will be a steel frame wearing a Miata skin...

jwagner
jwagner GRM+ Memberand New Reader
6/29/14 12:32 a.m.

Hmmm... Wonder if the Honda transplant kit will fit in an Exocet? Might be a nice combination - a little lighter than the LS, and LS power in a 1700lb car is insane anyway.

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