Honda's RT 4WD and rally racing.

Looking for a beater to rally. How useful is hondas setup for rally stage on red cinder dirt? How does it compare from the old (88-91) civic wagon to the mid 90's crv?

I believe those use a viscous coupling to send power rearward, so I would imagine they wouldn't work well... in fact I would bet that a regular fwd Honda with some sort of LSD would be faster.

I know that on the RT4WD wagons, at least, people see "6-speed" and don't realize that it's just a 5-speed with a super low crawling gear left of first. As previously noted the 4WD only really works when the front wheels are slipping due to the viscous coupling, so I dunno how well one would do.

I know it's a FWD until slip, I also know those cars are ancient now and the running gear is unobtainium. I know the system does a max of 50/50 spilt to the back. All of that's ok, just wondering if anyone here has successfully campaigned one. Might look at a lowered slightly, early crv.

i dont know about the civic wagons but the CRV's use a hydraulic pump to 'engage' the rear driveshaft to the diff. I have hear that with extended use in 4wd over long periods of time will burn out the pump, it not made to constantly run.

In reply to Trackmouse:

I've owned several of the older Civic 4WD's and a CR-V. The older setup is much more responsive than the CR-V design, although I can't tell you why. Maybe because it's a viscous coupler instead of hydraulic. I never did any competition with any of my Civic's, but did much hooning, and can tell you that if they are driven in a certain way they can work pretty well. The newer setup (2004 in my case) not so much.

Various FWD Civics/CRXs have done well in the 2wd classes. I can't dig up anything showing an RT4WD rally car.

EDIT: Found an AWD Del Sol

EDIT EDIT: Looks like he actually rallied it on pg 29. This sums up my fear of the viscous AWD: "50/50 power split off the start of the first stage of the day, diminishing to most likely 90/10 if not worse with every passing mile."

The only AWD systems that do well for rally-X are those that are engaged full-time (Subaru, Mitsu EVO, Toyota all-trac, etc.) The part-time AWD systems actually make the vehicle unpredictable as the systems cycle on and off. None of those systems that I know of have a button or lever that allows you to lock them in.

I would imagine it shouldn't be too hard to bolt both sides of a viscous coupling together...

You'll sound like a jeep driving on the streets near Moab, but you'll be full time locked.

In reply to NGTD:

I questioned a Nissan engineer, and the new juke's awd will stay 50/50 engaged below 30mph. Above 30 and it will simply power the wheel in back that needs it. When I pressed him he gave up details about rallying and said it would do well because the system is trying maintain grip which works well with the car pitched sideways. He said get it sliding, lay off the gas until you want grip, then Floor it and the computer does the rest for you. It might be my new car after the Fit.

Robbie wrote: I would imagine it shouldn't be too hard to bolt both sides of a viscous coupling together... You'll sound like a jeep driving on the streets near Moab, but you'll be full time locked.

That would work. Driving it on the street would carry a big risk of breaking parts though. And it'll push badly in really tight turns on dirt.

A VC setup should always have some drag between the 2 ends anyway, so it may be possible to make it work well enough without having to lock it up completely.

The AWD Del Sol is a friend of mine. Let me know if you get deeper into this and want to talk to him.

Why do you need 4WD to rally? If you want a beater to rally, the Civic already has support and they do well in rally. That or a Neon. If you have to have AWD, an older Legacy or Impreza is the way to go on a budget.

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to NGTD: I questioned a Nissan engineer, and the new juke's awd will stay 50/50 engaged below 30mph. Above 30 and it will simply power the wheel in back that needs it. When I pressed him he gave up details about rallying and said it would do well because the system is trying maintain grip which works well with the car pitched sideways. He said get it sliding, lay off the gas until you want grip, then Floor it and the computer does the rest for you. It might be my new car after the Fit.

You asked about 20-25 year old systems. The Juke's AWD system is likely much more sophisticated. The systems from the era you quoted will drive you nuts as they engage and release. Just when you want them to give you traction, they will let go.

You don't need AWD for rally. Get a Civic and beat the snot out of it.

A viscous coupler shouldn't grab and release suddenly though. They're usually pretty smooth and progressive in their operation. It's why I like the earlier Jeep setup for rear-biased fulltime 4wd better than the later clutch-pack driven setup (although that one is fully hydraulic, no electronic control). The viscous setup is just smoother and more consistent to drive, even though it doesn't respond as fast.