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Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
5/16/19 5:12 p.m.

I'd call it 3 to be safe.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/16/19 5:56 p.m.
Alfaromeoguy said:

$450 for a oil filter  gasket? Can I see one,please 

That includes shop labor, given the context of the thread, I figured that was a given. 

To make it easier, you have to pull the intake manifold, and the stuff on top and connected to it.

Dave M
Dave M Reader
5/16/19 7:45 p.m.
nderwater said:
_ said:

I feel like much of that could’ve been replaced with an afternoon in the garage, even if it’s a jag. The fuel stuff and water pump, yeah, let someone else bloody their knuckles. Air and oil filter? You must have money to burn, or be aging. 

I took the car to an indy Jag specialist (Not the dealer!) because the injector failure had many of the symptoms of an engine failure.  Learned a lot on that one.  While the car was at the shop I asked them to go ahead and do the 60K service and change brakes, so that I could have the car back on the road again ASAP.  I'm typically a DIY guy, it didn't dawn on me that they would be ordering the parts from a Jag dealer at dealer prices.

The transmission service on these 'sealed' ZF transmissions is a complicated procedure that requires reprogramming, so I left that to a ZF specialist.  The car had a coolant leak I couldn't find, so back to the Jag shop it went for that as well.

These days I have four small children, a full time job, and I help my wife some with her home-based business.  I don't have the luxury of free time or that I once had for DIY work, and frankly, I never really enjoyed it that much either.  I was the guy who's 'simple' projects always took 4x as long as expected and who always seem to leave drips of blood in the engine bay.

You sound like you need a Lexus, not a Jag. Time is too valuable to be spending it taking your car to get fixed, even if you can afford it!

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/16/19 8:52 p.m.

Dealer pricing on a jag is just nuts. It is really agervating to me that jags get the bad rap from this but a big part of it is that it is not an enthusiast car like bmw or Porsche where a large part of there owners will do there own service and as such there is a large non dealer based service and parts supply market that make the repairs much more readable. 

 

@the OP. I will give you $7,500 for it and you don’t have to have the service done. wink

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
5/16/19 9:29 p.m.

What I need to find is a skilled Indy shop that’s willing to use aftermarket parts. That could have cut $2,000 off the total.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/16/19 9:33 p.m.

I actually am interested in a 2009 XK that has 48k miles on it. It is in absolutely perfect condition. Garage kept never seen rain never mind snow. Retail price with the mileage and condition from NADA on it is $20k. I used the 60k dealer service  cost to justify my 12k offer. We will see. I don’t think  I will get it at that price but I think I made a compelling argument why I was only offering them less than half what they wanted for it.  

They started at $30k as a number that they just tossed out and I think they were trying for a home run and were extremely crest fallen when I blew it out of the water with numbers less than half that and the paperwork to back up my offer.  

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
5/16/19 11:06 p.m.

2007-2009 XKs have a smaller 4.2 V8 with something like 70 less hp, but they don't seem to go through water pumps as quickly as the 5.0 cars and don't have the maintenance time bomb of direct injection. The car you describe sounds like a deal if you can get it for anything under $15K.

minivan_racer
minivan_racer UberDork
5/17/19 12:04 a.m.

All I'm getting from this is that I need to open a shop that only does routine service work on Jags.

Alfaromeoguy
Alfaromeoguy Reader
5/17/19 12:46 a.m.
z31maniac said:
Alfaromeoguy said:

$450 for a oil filter  gasket? Can I see one,please 

That includes shop labor, given the context of the thread, I figured that was a given. 

To make it easier, you have to pull the intake manifold, and the stuff on top and connected to it.

Wow..to remove  oil filter, you must remove intake manifold?.if you keep the car, a remote oil filter  might be an idea.

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
5/17/19 1:09 a.m.
minivan_racer said:

All I'm getting from this is that I need to open a shop that only does routine service work on Jags.

The thing is, if you open said shop, you have to know the whole back history of Jags to perform maintenance on.  There’s not enough of them in any one market with owners willing to go to an Indy service shop to support “new only regular maintenance”... and the whole “deferred maintenance” thing is real... and only just started turning around for the older Jags.

This is based on conversations I’ve had with the owner of a “Jag Specialist” shop that’s been in operation for ~40years.

Klayfish
Klayfish PowerDork
5/17/19 5:44 a.m.

E36 M3 dude, why didn't you let me know, I could have saved you a fortune.  It would have only cost $100 for me to do your 60,000 mile service.

$3.00 for a gallon of gas

No charge for a book of matches

$97 labor fee

Done

cheeky

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/17/19 5:52 a.m.

Am I the only one who thinks that price sounds about right for what it is? Those parts at dealer prices sound about right. $110 an hour is a fairly normal rate for a specialty shop, and if you do the work by book instead of actual time (which I'm sure they did, and you can argue about whether that's proper or not) then.....yea, that's about right. 

MTechnically
MTechnically Reader
5/17/19 5:56 a.m.

In reply to Alfaromeoguy :

I think you might have misunderstood. We're talking about the oil filter housing gasket. Since BMW has used the cartridge style filters, they have had similarly designed housings to hold the filters. Overtime the gasket that seals the oil passages from the block will tend to leak and the housing usually contains mounting point for other ancillaries. 

Here's what the gasket looks like on an M54.

It's not a technically demanding repair, but it requires a good amount of disassembly. That's why it takes a good 3+ hours for a simple gasket repair.

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
5/17/19 6:16 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Nope, not alone. Although some of what has been repaired, should be charged a maintenance rate of about half to 2/3 of regular shop labor. I mean brakes are typically 1.5hrs per axle on time but no one in their right mind will spend $170 just on labor for that one axle. But they will easily spend $100 everyday of the week and maybe twice on Sunday for that same service.

Although, without knowing the actual prices on parts, there could be significant markup after the shop buys them for retail or cost +/- 20%.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/17/19 6:26 a.m.
Alfaromeoguy said:
z31maniac said:
Alfaromeoguy said:

$450 for a oil filter  gasket? Can I see one,please 

That includes shop labor, given the context of the thread, I figured that was a given. 

To make it easier, you have to pull the intake manifold, and the stuff on top and connected to it.

Wow..to remove  oil filter, you must remove intake manifold?.if you keep the car, a remote oil filter  might be an idea.

Oil filter HOUSING gasket.

The filter is an easy change, as the picture above shows, it's the gasket in the housing (the housing bolts to the block underneath the intake manifold) that's a PITA to change.

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
5/17/19 6:37 a.m.
Snrub said:

Wow.

Some of those parts are available on Rock auto at normal-ish prices; brakes, water pump, injectors, valve cover gasket, but some of them are not; belt, hoses, intake.

$110/hour isn't terrible, but it adds up in a hurry. The ability to price optimize parts is another big advantage. I could pay someone to do all the work on my cars, relative's cars, etc. but I couldn't justify the price to myself and continue with racing, etc. It's just too much.

That’s exactly how I justified my racing.  By doing my own work I saved enough to afford to go racing.  

I choose to race Jaguars because they are extremely mechanically well made and durable. However they have lousy HVAC and interior trim. Stuff that winds up costing a fortune to keep up, except on a race car where it’s all thrown out.  

As a result I can race an honest 150 + mph car that I buy for a little over scrap price. Regular  maintenance  items cost me about the same as any other car. Plus the added blessing of having components capable of living in a racing environment without the need to go buy racing parts.  

Maybe I do it a little too much on the cheap by having stock camshafts welded up and reground etc. so I lose a little power  but sit on a fatter wallet. 

The bottom line it’s the cheap way to go fast. 

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed UltraDork
5/17/19 6:43 a.m.

It sounds kinda crazy but then so do a lot of other things in life. I have a friend that took her cat (actual living cat, not a Jag) to the vet for a routine check up. They claimed her cat needed a teeth cleaning. $1500. That did include putting the cat under for the procedure but still.........damn. I think Vets may be rivaling mechanics for the craziest pricing. OK back to the original topic. 

Eurotrash_Ranch
Eurotrash_Ranch New Reader
5/17/19 7:32 a.m.
Tyler H said:

Owning a grassroots Eurotrash car requires self-maintenance to make financial sense. European suppliers can't make anything out of rubber or plastic that lasts.  Figure all that stuff needs done every 60-80k miles and you won't be disappointed.  

The only way I get to drive euro cars is doing almost everything myself and valuing my labor at zero.  

 

Looks like I'm in the right place.

 

Edit: The OFHG on my e91 took 30 minutes tops. The use of a ratcheting e-torx wrench, socket, and some universal swivels make it really quick. (Edit 2: no need to remove intake)

pirate
pirate HalfDork
5/17/19 9:59 a.m.

Many of us buy high end performance luxury cars such as BMW’s, Porsche, Mercedes, Jags, etc. with the idea you will be keeping it forever. However, that rarely happens. DIY maintenance makes sense if you are capable to make sure it is done right and is cost effective. The problem comes when it’s time to sell no matter how well the maintenance has been documented. High end performance luxury cars buyers expect to see well documented scheduled maintenance from the brands dealership. It seems Porsche owners are especially serious about this. 

I owned a very low mileage BMW Z4 I absolutely loved. While on a trip had a battery go bad. The local auto parts store would not change it out because it required a computer reset. Dealership cost to replace a battery was $300. At home I would have probably changed it out or went to a trusted BMW mechanic. I ended up selling the car to move on to the next “forever car” but as the car aged to over ten years I have to say I worried about a major electrical problem that would require dealership attention.

frenchyd
frenchyd UberDork
5/17/19 10:58 a.m.
pirate said:

Many of us buy high end performance luxury cars such as BMW’s, Porsche, Mercedes, Jags, etc. with the idea you will be keeping it forever. However, that rarely happens. DIY maintenance makes sense if you are capable to make sure it is done right and is cost effective. The problem comes when it’s time to sell no matter how well the maintenance has been documented. High end performance luxury cars buyers expect to see well documented scheduled maintenance from the brands dealership. It seems Porsche owners are especially serious about this. 

I owned a very low mileage BMW Z4 I absolutely loved. While on a trip had a battery go bad. The local auto parts store would not change it out because it required a computer reset. Dealership cost to replace a battery was $300. At home I would have probably changed it out or went to a trusted BMW mechanic. I ended up selling the car to move on to the next “forever car” but as the car aged to over ten years I have to say I worried about a major electrical problem that would require dealership attention.

Really?  Buy  New*  high end cars as Forever cars?   By that I assume you mean the rest of your life?  Implying you are in retirement?  * New is my addition to your statement for clarification. To separate it from a car of your youth like Muscle cars are today.  

Owning a car much more than a decade  involves Rust, obsolescence, wear, replacement  of systems.

With average life now around 85 years, that means they are bought about age 70 - 75?   

I can see the youth of today buying sporty type cars as cheap fun and just using them until they are in a position to afford to buy new.  Or until wear and other considerations  cause them to discard them and buy a replacement. 

But what market exists for the high end cars like Rolls Royce,  Bentley, Mercedes etc  once the cost of maintenance exceeds their market value?  

 

pirate
pirate HalfDork
5/17/19 11:35 a.m.

I didn’t imply retirement cars simply “dream cars” people always wanted and and when purchased plan to keep for a long period of time. I’m saying that plan changes and when it does maintenance records are important. For high dollar performance cars people often expect documented dealership maintenance for the car to maintain  it’s value.  

 

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/17/19 11:55 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Am I the only one who thinks that price sounds about right for what it is? Those parts at dealer prices sound about right. $110 an hour is a fairly normal rate for a specialty shop, and if you do the work by book instead of actual time (which I'm sure they did, and you can argue about whether that's proper or not) then.....yea, that's about right. 

You are not the only one.  Yes, that's a shockingly large amount of money and I spent less than that over the entire 200,000 miles I owned my first truck, including the purchase price but if you think about the overhead that both the dealer and the tech have to cover coupled with the level of expertise that they theoretically bring to the table it seems more reasonable.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
5/17/19 12:19 p.m.

I'm hoping Jeff (Gearheadotaku) as he;s been a service writer at our local Porsche/Land Rover/Audi dealer for years, although they moved the Porsche dealer to a sparate location and he just works there now.  But the same engine is in the Land Rovers as the XK and he's told me they are very reliable, especially the earlier 4.0L versions.  The 5.0 are close, but you need to keep an eye on the timing chain tensioners.  I wonder what he has to say about these items and costs.

The0retical
The0retical UberDork
5/17/19 1:03 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Am I the only one who thinks that price sounds about right for what it is? Those parts at dealer prices sound about right. $110 an hour is a fairly normal rate for a specialty shop, and if you do the work by book instead of actual time (which I'm sure they did, and you can argue about whether that's proper or not) then.....yea, that's about right. 

I was just thinking $110 an hour was cheap. I was in the process of moving to the current house when my wife's X-Terra blew the guts out of it's catalytic converter. Since I was tied up she just took it to the local Nissan dealer near the new place. They charged her $170 an hour.

The line "Do you think you're berkeleying Porsche?" actually left my mouth when picking up the car from the service manager.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/17/19 1:32 p.m.
The0retical said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Am I the only one who thinks that price sounds about right for what it is? Those parts at dealer prices sound about right. $110 an hour is a fairly normal rate for a specialty shop, and if you do the work by book instead of actual time (which I'm sure they did, and you can argue about whether that's proper or not) then.....yea, that's about right. 

I was just thinking $110 an hour was cheap. I was in the process of moving to the current house when my wife's X-Terra blew the guts out of it's catalytic converter. Since I was tied up she just took it to the local Nissan dealer near the new place. They charged her $170 an hour.

The line "Do you think you're berkeleying Porsche?" actually left my mouth when picking up the car from the service manager.

I guess they are making up for not selling any cars these days? 

Geez, that's more than the BMW dealership charges here in OKC for labor.

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