I don't get it - what's so good about 911s?

I like the 997s, not so much the 996s but a lot of people are in love with the '70s and '80s 911s. I just don't get it. I heard some have a hard time passing CA smog, the AC is worthless and gas mileage is in the high teens only. Plus they spin and you've gotta be a really good driver to prevent that! Am I mistaken about any of this? Maybe I should drive one, what do you think?

Nah, they're out of my reach anyway. I've seen some on eBay for kinda cheap but I'm sure that's just the price of admission. Owning one would bankrupt me and maybe my parents too.

You know, I should have mentioned early 911s in the "Car you dislike that everyone fawns over" thread. I've driven a couple, and to me they are crap. Steering feel is good, but they aren't that fast, the control placement is weird (though I suppose you'd get used to it), the handling is evil, the ergonomics are like a cruel joke, they don't sound that great to me.... I just don't get it. They can be made to look pretty good, I guess. But if I had the money, there are a long list of cars I'd get before I bought an early 911.

The later ones (996s and such) had a lot of these problems fixed. I haven't driven one, but I'd be willing to give them a shot.

When it comes to 911's I've heard that you have to spend $20k to get a good car. Go ahead and buy a cheaper one, but it will still end up costing you $20k. No idea if that is a valid theory - I have never driven a 911, much less owned one.

They don't autocross that well. Or sound that great. Or even look that good. I like 914's better.

Thats what I like. The older ones with out the big bumpers. To me they are a relatively cheap sports car with racing history and a great, unmistakable look. I can see why you'd skip them, but I like them.

wannabewrench wrote: Plus they spin and you've gotta be a really good driver to prevent that!

This is a large part of the appeal. They are pure drivers cars. The steering makes a Miata feel like a bus. They are light, delicate and require skill and care to drive. They are an experience.

Subscribing.

Curious to hear opinions on this. I have only driven the 996's and fell in love with that.

I'm not that up to date with US 911 prices but from what I've seen I reckon that $20k should get you a decent SC or Carrerra 3.2. Cheaper ones can be extreme moneypits so they're definitely one of those cars that need careful examination before purchase.

There is a massive difference between, say, a 60s 911 and a late 80s one. The 60s one is fast for a 60s car but still has the "interesting" handling whereas the later cars have most of the tail happiness ironed out. Well, that is unless you suddenly decide that taking your foot of the gas mid-corner is a good idea. And no, it isn't.

IMHO they're very much an acquired taste - I like mine (yes, I've got a late torsion bar 911) but then I'm of the generation who had the 911 Turbo posters on the wall. I'd say that 911s are the sort of car that doesn't come alive unless you put some effort in. And if you don't, they're just a boring old car with odd ergonomics (the RHD ones like mine are even worse). Don't expect to jump into them like you would into a Miata and drive them at 9/10th straight away, though.

They're not slow - mine's still a 150mph car - but I guess by today's standards they're not that fast either. And they don't feel that fast either as the engine sounds quite slow revving.

Oh, and nobody would accuse the old 911 Turbo of being slow, but they're are lethal in the wrong (read: inexperienced) hands.

If you're not familiar with air-cooled 911 goodness, look for Getaway in Stockholm on youtube, then google Porsche 935 and do some reading.

That wing makes that car look like an AWACS or an E-2 Hawkeye.

Keep thinking that way....that makes the good deals more available for guys like me! Yeah, the early 911s (60s-70s)swapped ends if you didn't know how to drive, but that's been addressed since at least the late 70s.The 3.0 and later motors are bulletproof. If you are ham-fisted, it doesn't matter whose transmission you're shifting, you are going to break it. So many of the knocks on the P cars boils down to "I heard....". Try seeking out owners instead of "I heard from my 3rd cousin, who knows a guy, whose neighbor had a brother in law that bought a 911 and it was a POS, that bankrupted him". If your looking for a soft, luxury ride, go buy a Grand Marquis. Much is made of the "cost of ownership". If you are a complete dweeb and have to go to the dealer for everything, it can be very expensive. But so can your Toyota....what if your Prius needs something ? There's no need to spend $20K to get a good one. My '82 SC was well under $10k. I still get 25-27.mpg on the road. That's with a 28 year old performance car. One other thing. Most people that have 911s are anal retentive asshats, like me. I take care of my vehicles. If they need something, I fix it. Not later....now. The internet (thanks AlGore!) has made shopping for parts, if you do need them, no more expensive than anything else.

An older 911 isn't about cup holders or how easily you can reach the radio...it's about driving. I have an 85 Carrera and will probably never sell it, but might eventually purchase an early 911 turbo to keep it company. They don't make the best DDs, I much prefer my 87 944 Turbo for daily driving, but an air cooled 911 is a blast for tearing up the backroads.

nderwater wrote: If you're not familiar with air-cooled 911 goodness, look for Getaway in Stockholm on youtube, then google Porsche 935 and do some reading.

I am SO doing that to my rear bumper!!!!

Don't autocross well? All I know is that there is an orange 911 running Vintage class here in the 'Burgh that will wipe that notion away right quick.

I've been shopping for one, on and off, for a couple of years. It has a lot to do with the fact that it was a car I dreamed about in high school. I've owned other cars on my dream list and come away disappointed, so we'll see how this turns out.

I'd be afraid to get involved with a sub-10k car. 12,000 seems to be where they start to get pretty good. Most sellers seem to ask 18 and think they're worth 23.

I am always amazed by the 911's steering and I love the sound. It reminds me of my first visits to Lime Rock.

I really wish that the pedals weren't in the middle of the car, though.

Probably a case of nobody wants to sell a good one, but everyone wants to sell a crappy one.

93celicaGT2 wrote: I am SO doing that to my rear bumper!!!!

What, trying to light it on fire?

wannabewrench wrote: ....Plus they spin and you've gotta be a really good driver to prevent that! ...

As mentioned, some people like a car that is a bit of a challenge. There is a payback for that challenge of course. Kind of like modern jet fighters which are wildly unstable (they only fly because of their computers) because it gives them the ability to change direction very quickly. Since 911 tend to like to lead with the rear bumper this gives you another method to control the car. Add the fact that the rear drive rear weight distribution gives you crazy amounts of grip when you get on the throttle, you basically have a car you can steer with the gas peddle. The appeal of "drifting" has been known by 911 drivers for a long time, it is just the original meaning of the word, not the current meaning.

That being said, I have never competitively driven a 911, I drive the longer heavier American version which has similar attributes.

I had a '65 Karmann Ghia in 1985. It was the worst POS car I've ever owned (out of dozens, including demo derby cars). Anything that has bloodlines like that car must be a piece of crap.

But my dad had a '67 Corvair at the same time, which was a blast to drive, it looked nice, and was a great car. So a rear-engine car that has a decent horsepower, excellent handling and good styling must be a great car.

Okay, so a 911 would probably be a good car.

Did you hear that in (insert city here), the cops are taking the "Dial 911" decals off their cars? It seems the (insert racial/ethnic slur here) were stealing them, thinking they were Porsches.

911s have back seats, right?

I was never a fan, but as I approach middle age...I think I could appreciate one. Miata's lack of a middle seat (and me being a single father of two) makes it not so practical these days.

However, if I was going to go out and spend $10-20K on a car right now (I'm not...not anytime soon), I'd get a 6 speed GTO.

Anyway...there's some thing about the style, the reputation, and (I assume) relative simplicity of the air cooled 911 that is growing on me these days.

Clem

Woody wrote: I've been shopping for one, on and off, for a couple of years. It has a lot to do with the fact that it was a car I dreamed about in high school.

Exactly.

From a performance standpoint, an aircooled 911 will have a tough time beating a modern V6 Accord or Camry from 0-60, and a bugeye WRX will eat its' lunch in pretty much anything. It's amazing how technology has moved forward, and yesterday's supercars are really not so super anymore.

But the thing is, the 911 is the only car on those posters that I could actually afford now. No countach or testarossa is ever gonna sit in my driveway, but a 911 seems not only attainable but actually affordable.

the 911 has always been the "usuable" supercar. It was(and is) perfectly capable of being driven on the track in anger on the weekend and then being driven to work or the store on Monday.

Unlike many supercars.. maintance can see them doing half a million miles on the original engine.

Yes, they are tricky to drive at the limit or even close to it. The older the car the, the more "evil" it's handling. But they also reward a driver that knows his and the car's limits and can reach them. There is nothing better than seeing a car and driver act as one.. expecially one with a reputation for being something of a widowmaker..

the evil handling reputation came from the days of 5.5 inch wide wheels and 185SR15 tires.

Even a set of later staggered SC wheels will transform the handling to very predictable, easy to catch-and-drive-sideways-if-you-want-to.

My '69 911S got the later Cookie Cutter alloys and was extremely easy to drive fast (and with the modded cams, tuned triple throuat carbs and no rev limiter, it revved fast, high, and sounded glorious).

my 912 was slow as molasses, but a regional autoc ross champion.

my '74 911 was the early non-emissions 2.7, and was actually very fast, and also quite easy to drive through the twisties (though driving it fast was more like driving a FWD car in the way you had to work the throttle: start to dive into a corner, let off slightly to get the car to start to rotate, then get on the throttle in the corner to start to induce understeer again to balance it).

Tricky to drive, expensive to maintain, slow to 60...I haven't heard anything positive yet except, "It was my dream car growing up". Jennifer Aniston was my dream girl growing up but I'm liking that girl from Transformers now. Point is, the affordable 911s are used up like Aniston. Megan Fox is still relatively unmolested.

ClemSparks wrote: 911s have back seats, right? I was never a fan, but as I approach middle age...I think I could appreciate one. Miata's lack of a middle seat (and me being a single father of two) makes it not so practical these days.

This is another big part of it for me. We had a baby last year and she simply can't ride safely in the Miata.