In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
BTW Girthquake New York just banned gas stoves in new construction.
Attacking the username of the guy who reposted a clip doesn't do anything to dispute or argue against the actual data presented. If you don't believe it dispute the actual information
In reply to Opti :
A reason New York did that is the indoor air pollution can be 2000 times worse then outdoor air if proper ventilation isn't available.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Burning oil ( notice I called it as you asked me to ) is not healthy. Proof if you need it, is if you run your car in a closed garage you die.
That or go flying some evening over any major city. You can clearly see the yellow haze. Then There is acid rain. Down wind of any coal fired power plant there is all the proof you should need.
There is more but anybody capable of critical thinking should be able to recognize the reality.
With 8 billion people on the planet and more and more of the Amazon forest being cut down and burned down. Not to mention all the clear cut forests in Asia etc. the world isn't in balance anymore.
Renewables will help. If they aren't perfect yet they are improving. The technology already exists. Time will only help.
I see Great strides made in batteries, recyclables, solar and wind.
Yes nuclear is a partial answer. As is hydro power. Hydro's short comings are understood and easily dealt with.
In reply to frenchyd :
Tell it to the whales beaching themselves by the wind farms off the east coast. There is consequences for every action we take. Ask restaurants which method of cooking is more efficient, gas or electric. I live in a flyover state and I don't want to follow NY and Cal. lead.
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm going to buy a bottle of Jameson after work.
In reply to z31maniac :
Sounds good, ship a bottle to me!
In reply to frenchyd :
Im aware what their reason is for doing it.
It was a response to this quote from Girthquake
Gas stoves aren't banned, nobody is being forced to buy an EV. That was already addressed earlier in this thread.
Dude-
Opti said:In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
I'm tired of going back and forth with you when you fail to comprehend basic premises,
you literally asked me to stop and I did so.
I don't think about you much at all
he says, responding to a comment days and pages later
Mustang50 said:In reply to frenchyd :
Tell it to the whales beaching themselves by the wind farms off the east coast. There is consequences for every action we take. Ask restaurants which method of cooking is more efficient, gas or electric. I live in a flyover state and I don't want to follow NY and Cal. lead.
There have been whales beaching themselves for centuries before wind generators were put in the ocean.
I too live in a flyover state but it's not one that is afraid of anything new.
Then we don't have brown outs either.
Opti said:In reply to frenchyd :
Im aware what their reason is for doing it.
It was a response to this quote from Girthquake
Gas stoves aren't banned, nobody is being forced to buy an EV. That was already addressed earlier in this thread.
Then I probably addressed my response to the wrong person. I apologize.
See that's the funny thing about society and decisions made from on high. It does affect all of society and future generations. This is a very specific form of energy policy being rammed down the publics throats whether or not it is actually best. Poor energy policy leads to blackouts and often times in adverse weather conditions. That leads to unnecessary death. It's also interesting that everyone here pretends to be inclusive, caring, considerate etc., but in reality no one gives a rip if the global push for green energy is based upon lies and will lead to increased human suffering. This is why no one can have nice things. The only way to make everyone equal is to make everyone dead in the end. If you don't think that is happening with ever increasing needless frequency, then you are ignoring current events.
Yes, I'm not going to support poor energy policy for forced transition to EVs. Just look at the testimony the ATA gave to Congress last week about this. They clearly stated the technology won't work for their business, will lead to delays in food getting to people, increase costs, decrease payloads, and the infrastructure can't support the conversion. But that's okay, I'm sure the morons making these decisions deserve your continued fealty.
The fact you all keep pushing the very ideals that have turned CA, NY, ILL, and other once great trade and industrial centers into murderous cities people are evacuating in record numbers is inexplicable. You can try to justify it all you want, but real actual observed evidence proves this way of forcing change is unsuccessful and wrong. All of this stupidity is invading other large cities too. My advice, get out of large cities while you can because clearly this is only going to get worse.
I'm sure you are all right, and none of this is related though. I'm not willing to risk my family on "coincidence" on the off chance you might be correct though.
Brief world history of wealth.... wealthiest cities in the world edition, roughly if I recall correctly.
1) NY, NY, USA textile industry, not so nice now
2) Cleveland USA, steel industry, not so nice now
3) Chicago, Ill, USA, oil industry, railroad and trade center, not so nice now
4) Detroit, MI, USA, auto industry post WW2, not so nice now
5) San Francisco, CA, USA, silicon valley and tech, no so nice now
6) Probably Shanghai China (USA isn't the world leader it once was in many ways starting with education)
7) I think Dallas may be the next wealthy city in the USA due to an overall business friendly environment and all of the business fleeing Ill, NY, and CA to move there. The housing market reflects this. Parts of Dallas are also starting to look and feel like the above cities, not so nice.
Yes we should take all of the failed policies from these places including energy policy and ram it down everyone's throat. I'm sure that will achieve utopia finally.... or perhaps not. How many times do people need to place their faith in idiots to watch them destroy their community and then swear "it'll be different this time?" Will it? I'm not convinced.
I have a good friend that works for the EPA. He is looking to leave pronto because it's not all you guys seem to think it is. Wind farms and solar arrays are an irresponsible use of land and require the land to be clearcut (Mr. let's save the forest up above). They also make the land useless for agriculture which could be used to solve world hunger.
That's the issue of it all. We literally have the technology and ability to solve all the world problems. That doesn't happen because stupid people make decisions and people blindly follow them without asking critical questions. Serious discussion about anything just simply isn't possible. If you challenge anyone's beliefs they DEMAND censorship because you hurt their feelings. I don't care about feelings. I want good solutions that work to improve things for most people, not just dumb plans that enrich and empower fools.
And the reason to do all of this... some people WANT it. Well at least we can finally be honest about that. I have no ambition here. I just want people to start working together in a serious fashion to solve real problems and stop blindly following idiots. Step 1 is honest conversation. I know this site promises that often, but most of you fail to deliver in spectacular fashion. Only one viewpoint is really tolerated here and it is the one that has or is destroying every major city in this country. Clean that up first, and I will start listening to your other plans. Until then, I won't support them.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Last I checked there was way more than one viewpoint on here. Yes a couple of posters have had a pissing contest over who's right but other than that many of us have stated varied opinions without issue.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I support AnthonyGS, the only thing I would add is the people who make the decisions at the national level are not adversely affected by those decisions, the average citizen is usually affected. The decision makers, because of their wealth and power are isolated from any negativity to their lifestyle.
Interesting things are happening with model Y Tesla's.
In Europe they are out selling the next 10 cars. I'm including BYD's which is dumping them on the European market st below cost pricing.
Record sales in March. 55,000 new Model Y Tesla's.
In reply to Tom1200 :
Anthony is just attention seeking, taking the thread in a different direction is a way to exert control.
Aptera's recent update is really cool. Check out the pictures of the body and door molds!
Electrify America's CEO takes a round-trip of the USA to see how well his chargers work. He has to reset at least one and finds another Ohio one that's rather slow. Good for him to do this now, if Tesla ramps up outside use of their superchargers they'll eat their lunch.
Also to head this off now- since some culture warrior is gonna start some dumb E36 M3 about this- I'm trying to find the direct wording on New York State's ruling on their gas ban that occured yesterday. Media, and thus people, are calling it a "Gas Stove ban" but it's really a restriction on installing natural gas/propane lines past 2026 to limit access to new appliances; the new law goes into effect in 2026 for buildings 7 stories or less, after which new construction won't be able to put in new NG lines or pipework unless they're exempt like a restaurant, a hospital, or used for backup power. I saw it first on Electrek but other publications keep repeating the same thing, so there's a good chance they're all repeating "news" off of one source to the point where they begin to site themselves (known as a "Woozle") so, don't get angry until you read official government documents. Also should note, that gas anything in the home is directly linked to a 40% increase in Asthma in children and being in a city affects air quality as well, so there's a very real child health and safety argument to make.
It's frankly not that big of a deal and New York has more pressing concerns or impactful things it could do, which you can easily learn about if you watch Louis Rossman on youtube.
Thanks for the clarification.
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to Tom1200 :
Anthony is just attention seeking, taking the thread in a different direction is a way to exert control.
Aptera's recent update is really cool. Check out the pictures of the body and door molds!
Electrify America's CEO takes a round-trip of the USA to see how well his chargers work. He has to reset at least one and finds another Ohio one that's rather slow. Good for him to do this now, if Tesla ramps up outside use of their superchargers they'll eat their lunch.
Elon Musk is signed up to electrify America.
That means other brands can use some of the Tesla super chargers. Typically if there are 16 superchargers 4 can be used for other brands or Tesla's. That ensures that Tesla's will always have chargers but Elon Musk not only makes some additional income but gets Federal money besides.
Mustang50 said:In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I support AnthonyGS, the only thing I would add is the people who make the decisions at the national level are not adversely affected by those decisions, the average citizen is usually affected. The decision makers, because of their wealth and power are isolated from any negativity to their lifestyle.
It's funny, most of my neighbors are Republicans. Yet a lot of them were the first to buy EV's. They are also the ones with solar panels.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
I did read the actual document. Its was passed as part of the budget not a stand alone piece of legislation. It also applies to buildings over 7 stories 2 years later IIRC.
If you want the spark notes from the briefing book, its
Making New York Buildings More Sustainable. Reducing emissions in the building sector by prohibiting fossil fuel equipment and building systems in new construction, phasing out the sale and installation of fossil fuel space and water heating equipment in existing buildings, and establishing building benchmarking and energy grades.
If you want the actual wording go read the budget.
Again it was just a response to you saying gas stoves arent banned, they have been in New York. Maybe make the semantic argument that they arent yet, but the legislation has passed.
It was only a point about how the conversation is largely centered around BS, like gas stoves
In reply to frenchyd :
In my opinion the technology for EV's are not quite ready yet but it will be because it will be profitable. I just don't want some politicians forcing me to buy one. Let the free marketplace and individuals decide what type of vehicle is best for them.
Mustang50 said:In reply to frenchyd :
In my opinion the technology for EV's are not quite ready yet but it will be because it will be profitable. I just don't want some politicians forcing me to buy one. Let the free marketplace and individuals decide what type of vehicle is best for them.
I'm curious Mustang; why in your opinion, are EVs not quite ready yet?
Opti said:If you want the actual wording go read the budget.
If you actually read my comment, you'd see I specified that I'm still looking for the direct wording of the budget.
It's working very well for my neighbors with EV's. Most of the time they are charged at home. Rarely, very rarely, is it done on the road.
Jerry said that charging on the road is like paying 3 times the price for a charge.
I'd guess there are about 10-12 EV's on the point. Most are Tesla's but there are a couple of Chevy Bolts. There was one Nissan Leaf. ( briefly ).
The Tesla's there is one Model X. 3-4? Model S's. 4 model 3's 3 model Y's.
The guy on the point with the Ferrari's is driving a White model Y Sometime next year we will be buying a Model 2
I've seen a BMW I3 ( I think that's their electric EV ) but only a couple of times
My wife originally wanted a Volvo EV but the price is over $50,000 and it doesn't really offer much
Some states like Texas and California may have brown outs because that's how some plants can really make a lot of money. But that's just bad planning, somebody's getting real rich !
As far as politician telling you what to buy? Just ain't going to happen. Long after you are dead and buried, people will be buying small block Chevy V8's and Chrysler Hemi's.
Fuel for them will be available in 2123 and beyond.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
I think the battery technology and the affordability need to be improved significantly. Are the batteries still efficient in sub-freezing weather? Also the batteries are not repairable if you get in an accident, they need to be replaced completely. Currently we rely on foreign sources for them, I would like to see more domestic sources.
They will be improved in time and they may dominate the market then. But the electric grid has to be robust enough to handle all of the charging stations. And we have to be able to recycle the old batteries so we don't create another problem.
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