I thought it was just me

I have friends of both sexes who absolutely can't operate all of the features of their cars, and really don't care......my spouse OTOH is the consummate researcher - she not only reads the owner's manual front to back, but does it while sitting in the car and playing with the controls as she reads about them. She's the same way with her new laptop, refrigerator or almost anything else.

Doesn't mean she remembers them all later, but she will look it up again if needed.

However, it's not just that cars have become needlessly complicated (I think they have) but that many features are not intuitive to use......so they don't get used.

Then there's this - we have a 2014 Audi Allroad, wonderful car but it has one "feature" that drives me nuts..... anytime you start the car the radio comes on at the last volume set - there is no off button! All you can do is mute it when it blasts you out of the seat. Why? Why the hell is there no way to shut off the damn radio? Who thought that was a good idea? My spouse like to listen to the Sirius radio at VOLUME! so when I get in and start the car my ears bleed till I find the damn mute button.

I'm guessing that if you could shut off the speaker system that some other warning or something else wouldn't work too, but I have yet to figure out what that would be.

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, they're told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

We have a 2015 Jaguar that we're still learning, and it's darn quirky. Case in point, if you're pulling into a tight spot, and if for whatever reason, open the door while pulling forward, the car will go into Park. On the one hand, I get it, it's considered a safety thing, but is also a bit of needless heavy handed nannying. I can see how someone might think that something's wrong when it does that; the irony being that if it does it once, it's a bug, and if it does it every time, it's a feature, hah.

Then there's my F150 that by design, won't reconnect a BlueTooth device when the car is started the next time, even though it was connected when shut off. Even though the display shows that it's in the BlueTooth mode, you have to tell it Every Single Time you get it to connect. Interestingly, the Jag does reconnect, which messed up my Audible book listening because I had the volume turned down and couldn't figure out how the story suddenly seemed so different, having 30 minutes pass without realizing it. Ah, technology.

kb58 said:

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, are told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

I think the issue is technophobia honestly. A vast majority of people just care that something works. They don't want to know how, they don't want to know why, it just needs to work. If it stops working, there should be someone trained in that thing that can fix it, because if you're not trained dragons will eat your children if you try to fix it. 

The utter craziness that comes out of people's mouths when all of a sudden something computerized stops working or does something strange is frightening. I see it from men and women, hell I'M guilty of it myself when it comes to things I don't understand(like transmission internals). Brain just goes to worst case scenario and that's that. 

Here's the thing though, it's strange to us, particularly the members of this forum, as we tinker. We want to know how things work, we want to make them better. That's not something "normal" or "average" people have anymore. 

It's not tied to any generation, sex, education level, it's more of a general fear of the unknown. 

Katie Suddard said:

Definitely not just limited to women, but a non-car people thing.

I knew a guy in college who had a very nice new Mustang convertible. He was very proud of it, and even more proud of the fact that he "drove stick." He told me to take it for a drive so I could "see how much better it was than my ratty BMW."

Y'all this car was an automatic. I told him that and he was like "but it has a stick." It blew his mind when I told him that an actual manual transmission has a clutch pedal that is used when the driver manually selects the different forward gears. I guess his last car had the shifter on the steering column and he thought that as long as it's in the center, it's a manual transmission. 

I work with people - ASE certified and everything -  who do not know the difference between struts and shocks.  

Keith Tanner said:

Does her AWD have a center diff? Because if all the diffs are open, losing a drive or halfshaft will disable the car :)

I have seen a driveshaft beat a hole in the floor after a U joint failed.

kb58 said:

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, they're told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

Uh...I guess I don't really understand where that question is leading.  One thing is for sure...*I'm* not the guy to answer it.  

I choose to "vote with my dollars" and not support what I consider to be the silly technology.  

I would be infuriated if I had to buy a vehicle that I could not figure out how to use.  Granted...I'm sure I *could* figure out how to use any vehicle.  But a lot of the features of new cars sure wouldn't be of value to me.  I'm the guy who's a little peaved at the electo-vacuum controls on his 20 year old Crown Victoria daily driver (when the cable controls on the police version I had worked just as well for me with no o-ring failures).

I guess I'm not going to support the auto makers for building overly-complicated stuff.  That's the only contriburion I can sensibly make to the situation.  

I don't know why gender was even brought into the conversation and will give the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't intended as a sexist thing.  If it was intentional...well...we all make mistakes.

I don't understand why owners manuals are still the main method of learning how to use your car. Almost every new car has at least one giant screen, why can't you just ask your car "what is the red warning light on my dash" and it should show a list of all the warning lights on the screen. You then click on the warning you want to know about and it will explain it. Or ask your car how to set launch mode and a video will pop up walking you through it. Keep the owners manual for basic info but use the technology already in the car to teach people about the car.

kb58 said:

Have modern car driver interfaces become too complicated for some people.

I still can't remember how to reset the service indicators in any of our cars, even having done it dozens of times. Brain space, it's precious. I do know that my camshaft bolts get 75lbft though. 

My ex-wife,  who has an engineering degree and is a MD, called me one time from a gas station (We were still married).   "They are out of Regular, is it ok to use the Green nozzle next to it".  - It took a few minutes to explain why  its diesel and very bad for the car, to not do that.  ( Being careful not to go into man-explaining mode.)

A friend of mine, whose daughter is an engineer, called me asked me what to do, her daughter just put diesel into her Honda and it stopped running a few hundred feet from the gas station.    They had it towed to a Honda dealership.   Service writer tells them not to worry, they know what to do, we get a few every month like this.

These are smart people, just not knowledgeable about cars. 

In reply to ClemSparks :

I have a family member who went from a 1981 Olds Omega to a 1984 Buick Century to a 1994 Buick Century, which got retired about seven years ago.  So roughly 35 years of effectively driving the SAME CAR.

kb58 said:

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, they're told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

I think, in the exceptional cases you outlined in your original post, the best way to address the issue is truly to explain to the user that they should reach for their user manual and/or call someone (their spouse, a friend, etc.) before calling for a tow if they have doubts about anything. And that solution requires the person they call to handle the issue with compassion and understanding as well.

To me it doesn't seem so much like a systemic issue as it does an issue of a certain subset of individuals (that subset containing multiple genders) being generally anxious about their vehicles and not knowing how to process that anxiety into a helpful solution.

The implication that the problem was specific to wives and women and that modern things were too complicated for them to handle was what raised red flags.

I don't begrudge a person at all if their primary response to an automotive crisis (perceived or actual) is to call a professional.  (and this includes having it towed to the dealership because a warning light came on)

It's awfully convenient for me to drive old cars that require continual tinkering, repair, maintenance, etc.  But if I were in a new car and light I didn't understand came on...I'd assume it's not important (if it's not about oil pressure, coolant temperature, or tire pressure...I can get to where I'm going and figure it out).  But nobody wants to be stranded on the side of the road OR cause damage to their car that costs as much as they earn in a year.  So if they want to be cautious...go for it!

My adult daughter called me recently while traveling with her mother (my ex) to ask about how serious it was that they had a code for a oxygen sensor.  They saw the light and found a nearby auto parts store and scanned it (resourceful).  Some folks wouldn't have me or someone like me to call.  I said "If it's not flashing you can continue to drive home (from a state or two away)."  

If someone's spouse is having a car towed to a dealer because a warning light came on and the spouse is upset about that...this is a relationship issue, not a technology issue.

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

I wouldn't be proud of talking someone out of being worried about a known-failed u-joint.  Would I drive it around like that?  Sure...until I had a chance to fix it.  But I wouldn't brag about it.

That's an actual problem...not something to look down on someone for being concerned about, lol.

To the original topic:  Cars are definitely too complicated for my taste but I just chalk it up to "the world is changing and I'm now officially "old."  I can be old and grouchy or just move on with it."  There are things that aren't cars that I am ignorant about (willfully and happily).  So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

For starters this U-joint has been intermittently making noise for over a year, still working. Secondly its one of those replace the entire drive shaft types at $500 + labor vs a $25 u-joint. The vehicle is pretty much barely worth $3000 considering the rest of it's condition and money is tight for her. Frankly its not worth worrying about IMO because she's stuck with it for another year and wants to get something else anyway. The last thing I'd do is encourage additional expenses on non required items...same reason the bumper is cracked, fender dented, and the check engine light gets reset (O2 error every few weeks) when it comes on (so the remote start will work).

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

Ah...I get that for sure.  Sorry my previous response was a little harsh.  Like I said...*I'd* drive it like that.  I just get uneasy about providing that as advice to others who might not quite understand the risks as I do.

I had my daughter driving with a ripped CV boot on her old subaru.  We have AAA for her and it wasn't clicking much  yet.  I got to it in a few months when it was convenient ;)

But to be clear...a noisy u-joint has already failed.  It just hasn't failed catastrophically...yet ;)

kb58 said:

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

 

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, they're told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

Any issue viewed and presented through a sexist lens, can always be dismissed as sexist without invalidating the actual issue at hand. The population sample you used is EXTREMELY biased. Perhaps if you had gone beyond your group of reasonably automotive inclined men who all chose to marry automotive-disinclined women, and also included automotive-inclined men or women chose to marry automotive-disinclined men, had technology/automotive-disinclined parents and/or grandparents, and/or had automotive-disinclined children and/or grandchildren, you might have come to a different conclusion about who this issue really afflicts.

Yes cars, among other things, have overly complex interfaces for below average inclination modern users due to long-term feature creep...Despite the technology existing to also make it easier.

No, this is not a gender or age specific issue, so presenting it as such is an issue in and of itself and only serves to distract from the real issue.

Very true.

In reply to Driven5 :

For instance....I dont' understand why a washing machine needs 20+ settings??? I don't care what the machine can do as long as it has a heavy wash cycle

edit: I certianly have zero use for multiple chime settings or bluetooth

I was NOT happy that I couldn't buy a non-wifi washer/dryer last year when we needed a set.  I mean, I probably could have...but not at the time I wanted (it was a time when you bought what was sitting on the floor of the retailer if you wanted clean laundry within the year).  

I'm still a little miffed.  But I have clean laundry and I don't use that feature and am reasonably sure that nobody is using it to spy on my dirty laundry (or clean) so I've chosen to go with the flow.  As I said earlier...I can be grumpy about it or move along (and in this case have clean sheets to sleep on to night).

And if it quits working.  First I google.  Then I call someone who knows how to fix it if it's not something I can fix myself.  I don't want to be an appliance repair person.  But I will if I can save a buck.  Most folks don't have my aversion to spending money, lol.

In reply to Schmidlap :

My bmw does that,  it will also bring up the owners manual for more detail.

kb58 said:

ClemSparks said:

In reply to Asphalt_Gundam :

...So why would I judge (too-harshly) non car people for "not getting it" when it comes to car technology?

But what about when a non-car-person's actions repeatedly lead to needless towing and dealer expense, where each time, they're told that there is nothing wrong. At what point does the issue need addressing, instead of being dismissed as sexist?

Perhaps when it is no longer presented as being largely related to one particular gender...?

ClemSparks said:

I was NOT happy that I couldn't buy a non-wifi washer/dryer last year when we needed a set.  I mean, I probably could have...but not at the time I wanted (it was a time when you bought what was sitting on the floor of the retailer if you wanted clean laundry within the year).  

I'm still a little miffed.  But I have clean laundry and I don't use that feature and am reasonably sure that nobody is using it to spy on my dirty laundry (or clean) so I've chosen to go with the flow.  As I said earlier...I can be grumpy about it or move along (and in this case have clean sheets to sleep on to night).

And if it quits working.  First I google.  Then I call someone who knows how to fix it if it's not something I can't fix myself.  I don't want to be an appliance repair person.  But I will if I can save a buck.  Most folks don't have my aversion to spending money, lol.

 

Our washer has a network port that's only used for remote diagnosis. It's not on WiFi and doesn't require a connection for normal use, but we can connect it to let a remote tech check out the machine if something goes wrong. Kind of a neat feature, honestly. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Katie Suddard said:

Definitely not just limited to women, but a non-car people thing.

I knew a guy in college who had a very nice new Mustang convertible. He was very proud of it, and even more proud of the fact that he "drove stick." He told me to take it for a drive so I could "see how much better it was than my ratty BMW."

Y'all this car was an automatic. I told him that and he was like "but it has a stick." It blew his mind when I told him that an actual manual transmission has a clutch pedal that is used when the driver manually selects the different forward gears. I guess his last car had the shifter on the steering column and he thought that as long as it's in the center, it's a manual transmission. 

I work with people - ASE certified and everything -  who do not know the difference between struts and shocks.  

But struts are shocks :)

The strut/shock thing has been a big annoying point in the Miata world for 30+ years now. It's just not worth getting wound up about, the meaning is clear. 

ClemSparks said:

I was NOT happy that I couldn't buy a non-wifi washer/dryer last year when we needed a set.  I mean, I probably could have...but not at the time I wanted (it was a time when you bought what was sitting on the floor of the retailer if you wanted clean laundry within the year).  

I'm still a little miffed.  But I have clean laundry and I don't use that feature and am reasonably sure that nobody is using it to spy on my dirty laundry (or clean) so I've chosen to go with the flow.  As I said earlier...I can be grumpy about it or move along (and in this case have clean sheets to sleep on to night).

And if it quits working.  First I google.  Then I call someone who knows how to fix it if it's not something I can't fix myself.  I don't want to be an appliance repair person.  But I will if I can save a buck.  Most folks don't have my aversion to spending money, lol.

 

Good luck to you sir, if it's a Samsung. They make great appliances that look really good, but their repair infrastructure is pretty much the worst of all brands. 

Keith Tanner said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Katie Suddard said:

Definitely not just limited to women, but a non-car people thing.

I knew a guy in college who had a very nice new Mustang convertible. He was very proud of it, and even more proud of the fact that he "drove stick." He told me to take it for a drive so I could "see how much better it was than my ratty BMW."

Y'all this car was an automatic. I told him that and he was like "but it has a stick." It blew his mind when I told him that an actual manual transmission has a clutch pedal that is used when the driver manually selects the different forward gears. I guess his last car had the shifter on the steering column and he thought that as long as it's in the center, it's a manual transmission. 

I work with people - ASE certified and everything -  who do not know the difference between struts and shocks.  

But struts are shocks :)

The strut/shock thing has been a big annoying point in the Miata world for 30+ years now. It's just not worth getting wound up about, the meaning is clear. 

But I do get wound up because words have meaning. 

Don't get me started on Freon.