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dclafleur
dclafleur New Reader
9/17/18 10:46 a.m.

In reply to jv8 :

That's a loaded question, sticky tires, wheel hop and hard launches and you'll crack a stock case.  The first thing to go in stick shift cars is the clutch, in my opinion it is barely adequate for stock power levels.  Honestly there isn't a single HP failure point you can point to where the driveline just gives out although you could probably start a fight on the Corvette forum by asking. 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
9/17/18 11:10 a.m.
jv8 said:
93gsxturbo said:

As awesome as a fully built and boosted C5 was, it was not conducive to reliability.  Basically I was able to find every weak link in the driveline one piece at a time.  

In your experience, where is the reliability pain threshold for the C5 driveline?  Is the stock 400 hp the limit?  Or can it handle more without a frequent rebuild?

 

My car was making 535 to the wheels on 93 pump gas and 595 on 100 octane. This was with an intercooled Vortec V3Si supercharger, longtubes, etc.   Still had the stock cam and intake, could have made more with a bigger cam.  At the first go of "big power" I put a twin disc clutch in it, that would let it hook and you could slip the clutch out, but it definitely took away some of the "fuse" of the stock or a single faced organic clutch.  I also drove on Drag Radials all the time, so a less grippy tire would have helped preserve the driveline.  As it was I rebuilt the entire driveline twice, ended up with a stock Coupe trans with as much of the Viper internals as I could fit into it - coupe trans had better gearing for big power.  Started with a Z06 trans, that was great when I was N/A.  Then added a Pfadt diff brace, snapped the output shaft off the Z06 trans, blew up one diff, blew up a half shaft, blew up a Z06 diff, added the ECS trans brace, rebuilt another Z06 diff with C6 internals, rebuilt the torque tube with Driveshaft Shop couplers and new bearings.  

Doing it today I would go with a less aggressive clutch, run real street tires instead of drag radials on the street, definitely put a big cam in it, and just spend the money for a full 08+ C6 Z06 driveline swap with the TR6060 right out of the gate.  Putting a TR6060 next to a T56 its night and day difference.  

As it was after all my farting around I could have easily afforded a TR6060 and matching K frame and rear diff if I would have just laid down the lumber at the start of the project.  Buy once cry once.  

LanEvo
LanEvo HalfDork
9/17/18 11:50 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

I now enjoy a stock Viper as my fun car ... Stock Viper on stock tires is awesome.

I’ve been looking at getting an early Viper as my next track/race car. I know later models got better and better, but I love the looks of the original roadsters. And prices seem very reasonable even for cars with crazy low miles. 

Years ago (maybe 2001?) I drove a Viper Coupe at Mosport. I wasn’t pushing hard enough to get any sense of how it handled. But I’m always shocked when people complain they don’t handle well.

Can they be made to balance well at/near the limit? Seems like there’s no reason they should be limited to street/drag use. 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
9/17/18 1:20 p.m.
LanEvo said:
93gsxturbo said:

I now enjoy a stock Viper as my fun car ... Stock Viper on stock tires is awesome.

I’ve been looking at getting an early Viper as my next track/race car. I know later models got better and better, but I love the looks of the original roadsters. And prices seem very reasonable even for cars with crazy low miles. 

Years ago (maybe 2001?) I drove a Viper Coupe at Mosport. I wasn’t pushing hard enough to get any sense of how it handled. But I’m always shocked when people complain they don’t handle well.

Can they be made to balance well at/near the limit? Seems like there’s no reason they should be limited to street/drag use. 

So I have a 1995 Viper...RT/10 Roadster, since that was all they offered back then.

Roadsters suck unless you are 5' nothing - basically no way I would fit inside with a helmet, and my seal is lowered 3/4" from stock.  I am 6'1 or so all torso.  And if you are 5' nothing you can't reach the pedals.  If your class requires no windows - congrats.  If your class requires windows - well - the roadsters don't have any.

Driving dynamics suck.  Its a big flexy turd.  The hood feels like it is going to shake off going over bumps.  Cowl shake is definitely present.  Brakes are questionable.  Way too much front brake bias, locks the fronts early for safety.  There is a reason a lot of these rigs got wadded up.  

Parts availability, especially body spares and go fast stuff, is nonexistent at this point for the Gen 1 (92-95) and getting thin for the Gen 2 (96-02).  

My car is an excellent cruiser.  Get it shined up, take it to shows, go to my friends' house for the sportsball match, take it for a long weekend in Wisconsin Dells (but you had better pack light and hope it doesn't rain).  With luck and care, it may actually be worth more than I paid for it when I go to sell it in a few years.  

Between the overall amount of suck (its a 35 year old design at this point) the lack of spares and parts availability (none) and the only mediocre performance (only 400 HP), in 2018 I would never suggest a Gen 1 or Gen 2 Viper as anything but a cruiser or collectors car.  

jv8
jv8 GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/17/18 1:47 p.m.
93gsxturbo said:

Roadsters suck unless you are 5' nothing - basically no way I would fit inside with a helmet, and my seal is lowered 3/4" from stock.  I am 6'1 or so all torso.

Ha - I am 6'2" all torso and I sat in my neighbor's gen1 Viper and laughed... no way can I fit in one of those.

I view my C5Z as a disposable track car that still eats money while he will cruise in his collector car for a while and probably break even or better.

 

te72
te72 Reader
9/26/18 9:27 p.m.
StuntmanMike said:

Stop talking up the C5's!!! 

I'm trying to resist buying one because I have too much going on right now and trying to maintain my 4th gen Camaro that's about 90% sorted. I know the C5 is faster but I just hpde and ax anyways so not trying to spend too much. Also in a few years when I might actually get one, prices will be higher than they should and whats left will be wore out!

I wanted a C5 when I bought my 01 SS. Always got the impression that I settled, and I know I did.

 

For what it's worth, C5's are still a rather competitive car in autocross, even against much more modern muscle... I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I hadn't built a Supra and had a Miata that's probably even faster at autocross than the Supra. If you haven't at least tested out a C5, you really owe it to yourself, unless your heart is fully in your fourth gen Camaro.

Lug_Nuts_23
Lug_Nuts_23 New Reader
2/22/19 10:12 p.m.

Years ago (maybe 2001?) I drove a Viper Coupe at Mosport. I wasn’t pushing hard enough to get any sense of how it handled. But I’m always shocked when people complain they don’t handle well.

Can they be made to balance well at/near the limit? Seems like there’s no reason they should be limited to street/drag use. 

Not that I have any experience with this, but I have read that the handling on road was annoying but when pushed hard they were great.

Lug_Nuts_23
Lug_Nuts_23 New Reader
2/22/19 10:15 p.m.
jv8 said:
93gsxturbo said:

Roadsters suck unless you are 5' nothing - basically no way I would fit inside with a helmet, and my seal is lowered 3/4" from stock.  I am 6'1 or so all torso.

Ha - I am 6'2" all torso and I sat in my neighbor's gen1 Viper and laughed... no way can I fit in one of those.

I view my C5Z as a disposable track car that still eats money while he will cruise in his collector car for a while and probably break even or better.

 

This is hilarious. I have sat in a couple cars like that. One of them is the De Lorean DMC--once I had a quick sit in that it was forever stricken off my list of "cars to try if I ever get the chance"!

I am also blown away at how much space an MGB has; someone I know who is 6'2.5" fits fine and can squeak in even with the top up. And in the passenger seat even he can't even reach the end of the footwell with the seat all the way back.

The seats in that car had squishy cushions but nothing was deliberately modified.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
2/23/19 8:32 a.m.

Every time I think about getting rid of mine I look at this picture.  Then I decide to keep it.

 

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
2/23/19 9:01 a.m.
rdcyclist said:

The biggest downside to getting a C5 Z06 is the incessant level of crap I'm going to get from my son along the lines of "How many gold chains came with it?" and "Aren't you a little old for a mid-life crisis?" and "When do you get fitted for the toupee?"

I suppose all that E36 M3 will stop after the first track day...

When I went auto crossing with mine I was surprised how many 30 something guys there were with cheap C5’s.  I think this whole stigma is an internet myth.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
2/23/19 9:34 a.m.

Fact:  A C5 Corvette has never been in my kitchen.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
2/23/19 7:31 p.m.
Knurled. said:

Fact:  A C5 Corvette has never been in my kitchen.

Quitter... cheeky

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