Contour
Contour
iceracer wrote: Contour
Not sure if any 4cyl, came with a manual.
You can get an E36 M3 in decent shape for around $8k. From my experience, the quality will not be on par with a similar vintage Honda, though it definitely is more fun to drive.
Care and feeding will be more, more random trim pieces will break, and it will be expensive to get handling back to stock performance. You will need to delete the fan and redo the entire cooling system. Some more optional type stuff would be that power steering fluid likes to leak from some expensive hoses. The PS reservoir will probably need to be changed. Stuff that wouldn't bother you on your Honda will probably bother you on your BMW.
Right now, you have a known quantity to deal with for getting yourself and your daughter around. If the Accord has been reliable, I'd at least keep it on hand to ensure that you guys always have some reliable transportation.
iceracer wrote:iceracer wrote: ContourNot sure if any 4cyl, came with a manual.
They certainly did, but are FWD...
ZOO wrote: BMW parts are relatively inexpensive (no more so for my M3 than for my Miata), and often have the advantage of being made in Germany, as opposed to China. If the BMWs you are looking at are STILL running 25 years later you probably shouldn't worry about reliability issues . . .
Agreed.. in some cases I found that BMW parts were CHEAPER than the equivilant Hyundai part
rotard wrote: Care and feeding will be more, more random trim pieces will break, and it will be expensive to get handling back to stock performance. You will need to delete the fan and redo the entire cooling system. Some more optional type stuff would be that power steering fluid likes to leak from some expensive hoses. The PS reservoir will probably need to be changed.
You DO NOT 'need' to delete the fan. You need to make sure the engine mounts are healthy.
Yes, the cooling system and bushings may need an overhaul - that said these are such well known needs that the odds are you can find an enthusiast owned car that has had these issues sorted.
I drive a ~$2500 E36 328i, and love it - it pulls reasonably hard, handles well, gets reasonable fuel economy and is a good size. If it wasn't rusting, it would be in my driveway for a long, long time to come.
We've had E30's, E36's, and an E46, and all proved to be enjoyable cars. I'm not sure that the E46 grabbed me as much as the E36 M3s and 328i did, but there's no doubt it too was a fantastic car...if a little more complicated than the others.
W123?
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njansenv wrote: You DO NOT 'need' to delete the fan. You need to make sure the engine mounts are healthy. Yes, the cooling system and bushings may need an overhaul - that said these are such well known needs that the odds are you can find an enthusiast owned car that has had these issues sorted. I
Agreed.. that rumor is spread by people who do not know any better. Replace the engine and trans mounts (very easy to do) and the fan will NOT contact the shroud and grenade. I also think only the pre-96 M42 engined 4 cylinder cars have an engine driven fan. The M44 is an electric fan from the factory
mad_machine wrote:ZOO wrote: BMW parts are relatively inexpensive (no more so for my M3 than for my Miata), and often have the advantage of being made in Germany, as opposed to China. If the BMWs you are looking at are STILL running 25 years later you probably shouldn't worry about reliability issues . . .Agreed.. in some cases I found that BMW parts were CHEAPER than the equivilant Hyundai part
That's because Hyundais are not very cheap to service.
I think it's easier to do a fan delete. That's just my opinion, though, seeing as how I've recently done both. Good luck on finding an enthusiast owned car with fresh suspension and such cheap.
I don't see how the fan delete is easier.. it took me less than an hour to replace both of my engine mounts.. and mine were so bad they had seperated, allowing the engine to jump all over the bay (and destroy the MAF)
As a plus.. do the engine and trans mounts and get better shifting with less worry of the dreaded "money shift"
mad_machine wrote: As a plus.. do the engine and trans mounts and get better shifting with less worry of the dreaded "money shift"
"Around and around the Firebird track
The M3 was really revvin'
Shifted to Second gear instead of Fourth
POP! goes the engine"
rotard wrote: I think it's easier to do a fan delete. That's just my opinion, though, seeing as how I've recently done both. Good luck on finding an enthusiast owned car with fresh suspension and such cheap.
But if the mounts are pooched, they need to be done anyway. It doesn't seem to me to be an either/or proposition.
E36's (even enthusiast owned ones) are a hard sell these days with the flood of cheap newer cars (ex E46). It's a buyers market. It's almost certainly cheaper to find one that has had the work done than to DIY.
I've only ever seen one 4-cylinder E36 sedan, though, and it was a two-door.
I did totally do a double-take when I saw the 318i badge. I thought they only put the fours in the little stubby hatchback thing.
There are manual Mercedes w201 190e and 190ds with 4 cylinder/5 speed too btw.
Knurled wrote: I've only ever seen one 4-cylinder E36 sedan, though, and it was a two-door. I did totally do a double-take when I saw the 318i badge. I thought they only put the fours in the little stubby hatchback thing.
I've seen quite a few, but BMW's are pretty common cars in the NJ area where I'm often driving. Still, I don't believe they were ever common. Face it, most folks who were dropping $30k or so on a car back in the 90's went for the 6 as mpg wasn't a huge concern.
and if you think the "little stubby hatchback thing" is slow.. just imagine that engine lugging around a couple hundred more pounds of 4 door sedan
I was asking the same question a few months ago, and I decided the answer was a M42-powered E30. I drive the little thing every day and love the crap out of it.
ST_ZX2 wrote:iceracer wrote:They certainly did, but are FWD...iceracer wrote: ContourNot sure if any 4cyl, came with a manual.
OOPs, forgot that point
The used car market has changed a lot from what it was even a few years ago. I think the days of being able to easily find any well-sorted, interesting car for $2500 are gone. There will always be exceptions, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.
There is this 1976 2002, though: http://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/3303500857.html
Here's a 1991 318is that would not make a good daily driver with a kid: http://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/3254017488.html
Those are sexy! I've never seen one, but I think I may need one.
I don't guess the C230 has quite gotten cheap enough yet, ya might get lucky I know I've seen a few examples in the $5-7K range.
Mercedes 190
njansenv wrote: Yes, the cooling system and bushings may need an overhaul - that said these are such well known needs that the odds are you can find an enthusiast owned car that has had these issues sorted. I drive a ~$2500 E36 328i, and love it - it pulls reasonably hard, handles well, gets reasonable fuel economy and is a good size. If it wasn't rusting, it would be in my driveway for a long, long time to come. We've had E30's, E36's, and an E46, and all proved to be enjoyable cars. I'm not sure that the E46 grabbed me as much as the E36 M3s and 328i did, but there's no doubt it too was a fantastic car...if a little more complicated than the others.
As the current owner of a 188,000 mile E36 that I plan to keep considerably longer, I've got to say that most of the weak points they're known for (cooling system, rubber suspension bits) don't appear to be significantly worse than any other '90s era car. Most of the other cars I've owned with similar mileage needed the exact same sorts of work done on them as my 328.
I do have one of the later ones with an all metal water pump and metal thermostat housing, but those are easy enough to swap onto the earlier ones. The plastic radiators fail in a bit of a strange way - the hose barb snaps off the end tank - but I've never seen a bulletproof plastic radiator.
E36s aren't maintenance free, but if you're any good with a wrench, don't let that scare you off.
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