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DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
11/4/11 12:12 a.m.

Anybody tried this before? There seem to be a lot of very rapidly depreciating jetskis out there that make 150 plus hp and would seemingly have the oil systems to handle things like getting turned upside down and violent side to side slosh. Any reason these wouldn't work in a car?

These four in particular look very interesting.

This is a Sea-doo model that makes 215 hp in the older boats. It's a triple and 1.5 liters. I've ridden one and it revved out to 9k.

And yes, it's supercharged.

Kawasaki makes a less powerful, what I imagine is also much lighter, Ninja derived engine.

https://www.wamiltons.com/?main_page=index&cPath=35

Yamaha makes a 1.8L, 180 hp four cylinder engine as well.

Then there's the one I think I like the best, the 1.2 liter turbo Honda. 165 hp and fully dry sumped.

http://www.topspeed.com/boats/honda/2007-honda-aquatrax-f-12x-ar37709.html

Appleseed
Appleseed SuperDork
11/4/11 12:45 a.m.

Don't they have a total loss cooling system? Seems like that might be a problem.

novaderrik
novaderrik Dork
11/4/11 1:06 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: Don't they have a total loss cooling system? Seems like that might be a problem.

there are ways around things like that..

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
11/4/11 1:06 a.m.

Couldn't you just hook a hose to the input and the output, figure out a pump and then connect a radiator?

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
11/4/11 1:38 a.m.

As mentioned, they're intended to never get hot, as in the expectation is that they constantly have <100 degree water pumping through them. That means you'll need a huge radiator to keep it that cool. They're also not made to run very many hours, so it's not something you'd expect to use for a daily driver.

Bryce

Zomby woof
Zomby woof SuperDork
11/4/11 4:48 a.m.
Nashco wrote: As mentioned, they're intended to never get hot, as in the expectation is that they constantly have <100 degree water pumping through them. That means you'll need a huge radiator to keep it that cool. They're also not made to run very many hours, so it's not something you'd expect to use for a daily driver. Bryce

I'd say you're wrong on both counts.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
11/4/11 6:01 a.m.

I like where this thread is going. Wasn't somebody here talking about a three wheeled micro car they wanted to put in the challenge?

Raze
Raze SuperDork
11/4/11 6:22 a.m.
Zomby woof wrote:
Nashco wrote: As mentioned, they're intended to never get hot, as in the expectation is that they constantly have <100 degree water pumping through them. That means you'll need a huge radiator to keep it that cool. They're also not made to run very many hours, so it's not something you'd expect to use for a daily driver. Bryce
I'd say you're wrong on both counts.

I'm with Zomby on this one, growing up in Maine, during winter months people practically lived on their snowmobiles in the winter, it was a perfectly acceptable form of transport for commuting, think motorcycle in the winter...

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/4/11 7:10 a.m.

Despite being total loss they should still have a thermostat at least inboards do. They also are designed for 100% load all the time so in a car they should last forever at the relatively low duty cycle you would use (maybe like 100% 25% of the time <50 the rest.) I would love to find a 2 stroke outboard powerhead (something in the 250 HP v6 range). Previous coworkers of mine worked at mercury and said the actual engine ready to run with manifolds and ecu/fuel pump with manifolds are in the 150-180lb range.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/4/11 7:32 a.m.

They run in the 160-190 range as far as temperature. They all run thermostats. The only problem I could see is possibly the water passages are small due to using such low temp water.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/4/11 7:44 a.m.

What about torque? The HP numbers sound good for a locost build though.

Conquest351
Conquest351 HalfDork
11/4/11 7:46 a.m.

How about one of these engines in one of THESE cars? Can you say incredibly awesome? I thought you could...

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
11/4/11 8:24 a.m.

Might be good for an A-Mod auto-x and/or hillclimb car where the run-lengths are minimal and if using an electric pump, could be cooled post-run. IIRC, the larger snowmobile engines are somewhat common in A-Mods.

I guess one question about the PWC engine is the rest of the drivetrain. In those A-Mods, the snowmobile CVT is used. How do PWC engines connect to the water-jet system?

Conquest351
Conquest351 HalfDork
11/4/11 8:33 a.m.

They have ways of mounting motorcycle engines to more "car friendly" transmissions. Maybe this could be done for these too?

Donebrokeit
Donebrokeit Reader
11/4/11 9:29 a.m.

I know someone did a rally with a MC engine in a car, I seem to remember seeing the car on Special Stage web site. The car seemed to have an issue with throwing chains as I recall.

Paul B

pinchvalve
pinchvalve SuperDork
11/4/11 10:02 a.m.

I have been rebuilding and older 750cc ski, and as far as I can tell there is a shaft that comes off the engine and the impeller bolts to it. The engine RPM determines prop speed, and in practice it is either at idle or WOT. Which is a lot like an autocross car huh?

HappyAndy
HappyAndy HalfDork
11/4/11 10:56 a.m.
Conquest351 wrote: How about one of these engines in one of THESE cars? Can you say incredibly awesome? I thought you could...

That one seems good just the way it is, I'd bet some turbo system upgrades and tuning would double the "claimed" output.

jeffmx5
jeffmx5 Reader
11/4/11 11:52 a.m.

Bonus, they already have a shaft output.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
11/4/11 12:59 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: I have been rebuilding and older 750cc ski, and as far as I can tell there is a shaft that comes off the engine and the impeller bolts to it. The engine RPM determines prop speed, and in practice it is either at idle or WOT. Which is a lot like an autocross car huh?

What does the clutch look like? A prop would naturally "slip" and gradually gain traction against water. Not like tires on pavement.

It's definitely an interesting idea... since around here, half-abandoned jet-skis are in people's back yards like piles of leaves..

Grtechguy
Grtechguy SuperDork
11/4/11 1:23 p.m.
Raze wrote:
Zomby woof wrote:
Nashco wrote: Bryce
I'd say you're wrong on both counts.
I'm with Zomby on this one, growing up in Maine, during winter months people practically lived on their snowmobiles in the winter, it was a perfectly acceptable form of transport for commuting, think motorcycle in the winter...

All my sleds have been designed as Fan Cooled / Air Cooled or have Radiators

AutoXR
AutoXR Reader
11/4/11 2:39 p.m.

We sold 65 Jetski's this year.

Yes they are made to run quite a few hours - I had a honda with over 400 on it that had perfect 175 compression acorss the board.

Lots of machines now are designed for salt water use have closed circut cooling systems where outside water isn't pumped into the motor.

Honda made a N/A motor that was within 7 hp of the turbo.

What about transmission? 1 speed car? I am going to put a 600RR motor in the isetta

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/4/11 3:53 p.m.
DaewooOfDeath wrote: This is a Sea-doo model that makes 215 hp in the older boats. It's a triple and 1.5 liters. I've ridden one and it revved out to 9k. And yes, it's supercharged.

I need some time alone now.. .. . .

How about just putting it in a miata?

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
11/5/11 4:13 a.m.
Ian F wrote: Might be good for an A-Mod auto-x and/or hillclimb car where the run-lengths are minimal and if using an electric pump, could be cooled post-run. IIRC, the larger snowmobile engines are somewhat common in A-Mods. I guess one question about the PWC engine is the rest of the drivetrain. In those A-Mods, the snowmobile CVT is used. How do PWC engines connect to the water-jet system?

My thought was propeller shaft = drive shaft and Porsche 924 transaxle = transmission.

My intended application is a Tico converted to FR and designed for the nuttiest possible ground effects.

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
11/5/11 4:28 a.m.
Gearheadotaku wrote: What about torque? The HP numbers sound good for a locost build though.

None of them rev that high so torque should be pretty good.

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
11/5/11 4:43 a.m.
Nashco wrote: As mentioned, they're intended to never get hot, as in the expectation is that they constantly have <100 degree water pumping through them. That means you'll need a huge radiator to keep it that cool. They're also not made to run very many hours, so it's not something you'd expect to use for a daily driver. Bryce

Looks like the Sea Doo has completely closed circuit cooling. They probably don't have regular car reliability though.

http://www.thejetworks.co.uk/rotax4tec.htm

This looks awfully tempting for a racecar build though.

The other problems I can see would be intercoolers (which do just use the lake water) and the gear reduction that seems to be built into the oil pan. Seems like the output shaft never gets above about 5,000 rpm.

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