1 2 3 4
Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/27/10 8:45 a.m.

I'm also pretty tired of all the GM bashing. "My cousin's ex-roomate's girlfriend had a POS Cavalier, so the Cobalt must suck!!" is pretty stupid. The Cobalt SS set a Nurburgring record, was declared the best-handling FWD in the world by multiple magazines, and won some pretty serious SCCA National Club Racing titles. It's an excellent driver's car with good parts in spades (Recaro's, LSD, turbo+intercooler, multi-link, etc, etc) that happens to share a platform with a base model economy car. You know, kinda like the WRX, the SE-R, the Speed3, the SRT-4, etc, etc, etc. Stop bashing just because it's from GM.

If I had told you that GM took their premium mid-size, and replaced the multi-link IRS with a solid axle, rear discs with drums, took out standard features, and lessened the quality of the interior materials just to meet a low price-point, you would rip them a new one for the next decade. Instead, it's VW, and everybody is like, "oh yeah, that makes sense!". Meanwhile GM has released a vastly superior car in the Cruze with rear multi-link, rear discs, direct-injection, and a premium interior featuring excellent standard features and y'all can;t shut up about how bad you thought it's predecessor was judge solely on an airport rental 4 years ago.

SAD.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
10/27/10 8:49 a.m.

On the flip side of that, the Cobalt SS being good doesn't mean that a basement-trim Cobalt is a good car, either... That argument goes both ways.

I'd rock an SS. I'm still deciding if i'd take a base model Cobalt if it was given to me for free.

Zomby woof
Zomby woof Dork
10/27/10 8:58 a.m.
Javelin wrote: SAD.

And disappointing.

I expect more than hate from car guys.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
10/27/10 10:41 a.m.

We were never talking about the SS. And I don't think anyone bashed the Cruze. Fact is, with a few exceptions, only the guys that own a non-SS Cobalt think they're great. The rest of us compared them to the competition and ruled them out for all of the reasons given in this thread. We don't have to agree, and we won't. People don't all look for the same thing in a vehicle. I personally put a lot of emphasis on the interior, because that's where I spend my time. I also value quality and resale value, both of which work against the Cobalt.
You say you want more than hate from car guys. I think we've given you more in spades. You don't agree. Okay.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
10/27/10 10:44 a.m.

Javelin a certain amount of gas only contains so much energy. On equal cars to increase the energy content you need to increase the amount of gas. If you think an engine producing 400 hp uses the same amount of gas the same engine does when tuned to produce 200 hp then I've got some swampland in Florida I'd like to talk to you about and then there's that perpetual motion machine that's been running in my backyard for the past 30 years you might be interested in.

The high mpg figures you find on so many of the cars come from an extremely high final drive ratio and those mpg figures are only attainable at steady state hwy cruising speeds. Once you get out of top gear and get on city streets then all bets are off. My Viper cruised at under 2,000 rpm @ 70 mph and it returned great economy numbers when I was in top gear on a flat freeway, but not so good on other roads.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
10/27/10 10:44 a.m.
bravenrace wrote: We were never talking about the SS. And I don't think anyone bashed the Cruze. Fact is, with a few exceptions, only the guys that own a non-SS Cobalt think they're great. The rest of us compared them to the competition and ruled them out for all of the reasons given in this thread. We don't have to agree, and we won't. People don't all look for the same thing in a vehicle. I personally put a lot of emphasis on the interior, because that's where I spend my time. I also value quality and resale value, both of which work against the Cobalt. You say you want more than hate from car guys. I think we've given you more in spades. You don't agree. Okay.

Why do you have to be such a GM basher?

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
10/27/10 10:48 a.m.

I'm not. I own three GM vehicles. Oh wait, they're all pieces of dreck.

Klayfish
Klayfish Reader
10/27/10 11:51 a.m.

I don't think it's all GM bashing or hate. I think most of this thread surrounded just the Cobalt. At least in my opinion, there are plenty of decent GM vehicles out there. The Corvette, full size trucks/Suburban, Malibu just to name a few. But the non-SS Cobalt just isn't GMs shining example of a segment competitive car, IMHO.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
10/27/10 12:41 p.m.

i find it funny people on a "grassroots" forum talking about "resale". Aren't we the ones that invented "running into the ground, fixing it and doing it again?"

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/27/10 12:42 p.m.

In reply to Klayfish:

The Cobalt still beats the pants off of the Cavalier in terms of refinement, though. The only two good things about the last Cavalier I owned were: 1. You could easily fit a 13b rotary engine inside if you removed the passenger seat 2. The engine, while noisy and aggravating, was pretty darn reliable if you did the required maintenance.

Vigo
Vigo HalfDork
10/27/10 2:52 p.m.
I'm also pretty tired of all the GM bashing. "My cousin's ex-roomate's girlfriend had a POS Cavalier, so the Cobalt must suck!!" is pretty stupid. The Cobalt SS set a Nurburgring record, was declared the best-handling FWD in the world by multiple magazines, and won some pretty serious SCCA National Club Racing titles. It's an excellent driver's car with good parts in spades (Recaro's, LSD, turbo+intercooler, multi-link, etc, etc) that happens to share a platform with a base model economy car. You know, kinda like the WRX, the SE-R, the Speed3, the SRT-4, etc, etc, etc. Stop bashing just because it's from GM. If I had told you that GM took their premium mid-size, and replaced the multi-link IRS with a solid axle, rear discs with drums, took out standard features, and lessened the quality of the interior materials just to meet a low price-point, you would rip them a new one for the next decade. Instead, it's VW, and everybody is like, "oh yeah, that makes sense!". Meanwhile GM has released a vastly superior car in the Cruze with rear multi-link, rear discs, direct-injection, and a premium interior featuring excellent standard features and y'all can;t shut up about how bad you thought it's predecessor was judge solely on an airport rental 4 years ago. SAD.

Gotta agree with that..

i find it funny people on a "grassroots" forum talking about "resale". Aren't we the ones that invented "running into the ground, fixing it and doing it again?"

More importantly, arent we the kind who benefit most from the depreciation of cars other people consider to be impractical and unreliable? I know i am.

parker
parker New Reader
10/27/10 3:22 p.m.

Sorry Carguy, I DO average 28mpg in mixed driving. When the bias is more toward stop and go it drops to about 25. On a roadtrip with all hwy it was a 30mpg. The majority end up around 28. This is setting the trip odo and dividing by the gallons to fill up, not the dash display.

On the dash display instant mpg is in the single digits when at full boost and around 32mpg at 65mph.

akamcfly
akamcfly Reader
10/27/10 4:26 p.m.

I rent cars fairly often for long distance work trips. I rent from a place which has mostly Chrysler products, but they share space and computers with another rental company (they merged a while back) that has Hyundai, GM and Toyota stuff.

Right now I'm 2/3 into a 2500km road trip in a 2010 Toyota Matrix base model and I'm not liking it much at all. Rental Toyotas are base models - no cruise, no satellite radio and no bluetooth. :/ I can live with that, but it is a bit sucky. What's really bad in this car is there are no front cup holders (rental co didn't put the divider thingies in the console) and NOWHERE TO REST MY ELBOW. There is no door arm rest! The shifter is stupid and the whole steering wheel seems to be the (overly sensitive) horn button. Fuel range and torque are also lacking. Worst, most boomy radio ever too. Terrible radio. Dismal radio.

Had I known it didn't have cruise and satellite radio, I would have taken the PT Cruiser they also offered.

I've done the same trip in an ACCENT and was more comfortable.

My favorite so far is the Dodge Avenger. As a highway car it is comfy and has excellent (impressive actually) fuel range. The rentals have cruise, Sirius and Uconnect bluetooth. It's also quiet and less than $10/day more expensive than the base rental car. I've also had the "upscale" Sebring, but it's not as good. The Avenger is a great kilometre eater.

It's too dull to actually own though - not very attractive either.

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
10/27/10 4:33 p.m.

Get up get get get down, Cobalt interiors are a joke in your town.

p.s. I kind of want to try out an Accent just to see what they're like.

RoosterSauce
RoosterSauce New Reader
10/27/10 4:51 p.m.
pres589 wrote: Get up get get get down, Cobalt interiors are a joke in your town. p.s. I kind of want to try out an Accent just to see what they're like.

I bought a new Accent, and it's just like driving a Miata that's really tall, slower, with softer suspension, slower steering, a really long and vague shifter, and a hardtop; but at least it has back seats, a big hatchback, and if I had an iPod I could plug it right into the stereo. I also have a GMC, so maybe I'm supposed to like the Cobalt, but I don't.

Zomby woof
Zomby woof Dork
10/27/10 5:43 p.m.
Vigo wrote: More importantly, arent we the kind who benefit most from the depreciation of cars other people consider to be impractical and unreliable? I know i am.

Resale is the main reason I bought mine... at $.50 on the dollar.

It was strictly an appliance, but living with it for 3 years, I have realized how competent it is.

When prices bottom out on the latest models, I'm going to buy one as a project.

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
10/27/10 7:19 p.m.

In reply to RoosterSauce:

Sounds like a good little car to pick up used and throw some parts at. There appears to be some springs from H&R and KYB GR-2's exist for it, as well as a couple options for short shifters. I bet there's other stuff out there and maybe stiffer anti-roll bars would be smarter than the spring swap but at least there's some aftermarket for this thing, even if it is limited.

pres589
pres589 HalfDork
10/27/10 7:19 p.m.

In reply to RoosterSauce:

Sounds like a good little car to pick up used and throw some parts at. There appears to be some springs from H&R and KYB GR-2's exist for it, as well as a couple options for short shifters. I bet there's other stuff out there and maybe stiffer anti-roll bars would be smarter than the spring swap but at least there's some aftermarket for this thing, even if it is limited.

RoosterSauce
RoosterSauce New Reader
10/27/10 7:40 p.m.
pres589 wrote: In reply to RoosterSauce: Sounds like a good little car to pick up used and throw some parts at. There appears to be some springs from H&R and KYB GR-2's exist for it, as well as a couple options for short shifters. I bet there's other stuff out there and maybe stiffer anti-roll bars would be smarter than the spring swap but at least there's some aftermarket for this thing, even if it is limited.

I spend all day working on cars, and doing car-related work , but I don't have the time or place to any work on my own cars, hence the new Accent. You can't beat Hyundai's warranty, but hopefully I won't need to use it. It's no sports car, but it's a pleasure to zip around at 7/10th's. I could see myself getting a decent set of summer and winter tires once I wear out these crap OEM tires, and maybe a set of sway bars.

Once I have it paid off and I buy a new Fiat 500 Abarth Essesse, then maybe I can turn the Accent into a crazy race car thing.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
10/28/10 1:05 p.m.

Interesting development. We're going away for the weekend and last night when we set up our rental cars my wife said that under no circumstances would she drive another Cobalt! I had to upscale the car to mid size to be sure that didn't happen.

There's a whole lot more she said, but most of it was NSFW so I won't print that.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury SuperDork
10/28/10 1:55 p.m.

under no circumstances would SWMBO ever ever ever drive an Ariel Atom...must be a total POS.

Powar
Powar GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/28/10 1:59 p.m.
4cylndrfury wrote: under no circumstances would SWMBO ever ever ever drive an Ariel Atom...must be a total POS.

Mine would LOVE an Ariel Atom.

(And now back to your useless bickering)

Cotton
Cotton Dork
10/28/10 3:01 p.m.

Honestly mine wouldn't want one either unless it's a turbo SS. She would much prefer her Solstice GXP coupe. Of course, she wouldn't want a sentra, accord, camry, or other mindless appliance either.

Derick Freese
Derick Freese HalfDork
10/28/10 3:13 p.m.

When my Astra goes back in for repair, I hope I get another Cobalt. I felt like I could beat on the car and it not give a rat's ass. There's no button for traction control, but if you lift the emergency brake lever one notch, it turns TC off, at least in my rental Cobalt. If I don't get a Cobalt, it will probably be something bigger and more bland than the Cobalt.

RoosterSauce
RoosterSauce New Reader
10/28/10 3:20 p.m.
Derick Freese wrote: When my Astra goes back in for repair, I hope I get another Cobalt. I felt like I could beat on the car and it not give a rat's ass. There's no button for traction control, but if you lift the emergency brake lever one notch, it turns TC off, at least in my rental Cobalt. If I don't get a Cobalt, it will probably be something bigger and more bland than the Cobalt.

Why pull the e-brake up one notch when you can pull it up ten notches? Hope you got the insurance.

1 2 3 4
Our Preferred Partners
okumvjssh8EeWH2wRvsuL8lCoQ6KUk8OJJ8RUhx35VpAQhAoHex4VF4p4LnxOUo5