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Opti
Opti Dork
7/14/21 3:45 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

If hes replacing a Fiat because it likes to puke its coolant occasionally (which is completely understandable) I dont think an aging M (the people that consider rod bearings a wear item) car is a good recommendation.

I was told a while back the F10 M5s had a weird feature that only charged the battery while coasting and led to a ton of them having dead batteries very early in life, and BMWs solution was just change the battery to a service item with a mileage interval for replacement (Ive heard 10K miles, once a year or every service). The real solution was a software adjustment but since it would technically affect mileage (emissions) it would require recertification. This on a car that requires coding a new battery and doesnt generally seem to like aftermarket batteries. Disclaimer: I was told this and vaguely remember reading something about it years ago, so Im not sure it 100% accurate.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/14/21 3:58 p.m.
WonkoTheSane said:
maschinenbau said:

In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :

I'm already looking for a '21 ND2 RF in blue. I can use my SCCA membership to get Mazda's employee S-plan pricing. Ironically the dealer I bought my Fiat from is a Mazda dealer, and my original salesperson is game for S-plan pricing. They just have to find me one in blue now.

I will say that using S-Plan was the single greatest car buying experience of my life..  There was literally no negotiation or BS games.  I simply said "I have S-Plan, and my credit union is offering me X.xx interest rate. If you can beat that, I'll finance with you."   It was the way that everyone wants it to be.

FWIW, the Costco car buying program will deliver that same buying experience with most brands. 

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/14/21 4:02 p.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

That's cool to know, thanks!

bgkast
bgkast GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/14/21 6:37 p.m.

Wow, what a ride! Good luck on the ND!

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/19/21 3:54 p.m.

It's already on Carvana's site. Looks like they're hoping to flip it for another $3k. The Carfax report they provide doesn't show any of my warranty work, nor the water pump done under the first owner's tenure, so be careful how much stock you put in those reports.

Going to drive a new red RF tomorrow. The dealer says they can get me a blue one if I don't like the red. 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/19/21 5:45 p.m.
maschinenbau said:

It's already on Carvana's site. Looks like they're hoping to flip it for another $3k. The Carfax report they provide doesn't show any of my warranty work, nor the water pump done under the first owner's tenure, so be careful how much stock you put in those reports.

Going to drive a new red RF tomorrow. The dealer says they can get me a blue one if I don't like the red. 

How much was asked and disclosed about your ownership experience?

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
7/19/21 6:16 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to Tom Suddard :

If hes replacing a Fiat because it likes to puke its coolant occasionally (which is completely understandable) I dont think an aging M (the people that consider rod bearings a wear item) car is a good recommendation.

I was told a while back the F10 M5s had a weird feature that only charged the battery while coasting and led to a ton of them having dead batteries very early in life, and BMWs solution was just change the battery to a service item with a mileage interval for replacement (Ive heard 10K miles, once a year or every service). The real solution was a software adjustment but since it would technically affect mileage (emissions) it would require recertification. This on a car that requires coding a new battery and doesnt generally seem to like aftermarket batteries. Disclaimer: I was told this and vaguely remember reading something about it years ago, so Im not sure it 100% accurate.

Hey hey hey now. Let's remember why we are all here and not forget about our mission. To get morons to buy E36 M3 we lust for but arent stupid enough to buy so that we can live vicariously through the glory and defeat of others' rediculous consumption items. 

OP,

I heard the V8 is BMW's most reliable engine and that turbos actually increase service life. Also Nurburgring times mkay?

dps214
dps214 Dork
7/19/21 6:41 p.m.

I mean the bearings are wear items yeah, but paying someone to do it is like $2k and if it's just a street car probably only needs to be done every 50k miles or maybe even more. Honestly I'd take that over...basically any FCA (sorry...stellantis) product. But really the answer is a porsche that doesn't have any of those reliability issues and the only maintenance woes are $100 oil changes and 18-19" tires.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/19/21 6:55 p.m.
dps214 said:

I mean the bearings are wear items yeah, but paying someone to do it is like $2k and if it's just a street car probably only needs to be done every 50k miles or maybe even more.

My understanding is that the S63 rod bearings don't need scheduled replacement the way the S54/S65/S85 do.  Yes, you'll find some failures on the net, but nowhere close to as many and odds are those are just being brought up because of the previous engines.  The turbo engines don't get the high RPM stress that the NA ones do.

Also, even on an S54, 50K would be way early to be replacing them on a street car.  100K is more the usual number.

tester (Forum Supporter)
tester (Forum Supporter) Reader
7/19/21 7:06 p.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Tell us about the RF once you put a few miles on it. 
 

I really like the look of the RF in red, and I typically don't like red cars. It's very Maranello to my eye. yes

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
7/19/21 8:20 p.m.

I see nothing wrong with this plan. I got mine a few months ago. Closing in on 5k miles now.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/19/21 9:08 p.m.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Literally nothing was asked beyond the options boxes I checked on the website.

Snrub
Snrub Dork
7/19/21 9:37 p.m.

Both the red and the blue are great choices.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/19/21 10:39 p.m.

My RF will be black and debadged to look like a little exotic. It will also be cylindrically enhanced.

But the red, the red is good.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
7/19/21 11:16 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

You doing an LS RF?  Are there any currently?

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
7/20/21 6:27 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I understand debadging is a bit complicated by the emblem recess on the nose, and the fact that the badges use pins rather than simply being glued to the surface. It can be done, of course, but it involves quite a bit of work. But then you probably already knew all that. Curious to hear about your experience when you do it.

Barb_Dwyer
Barb_Dwyer New Reader
7/20/21 6:56 a.m.

In reply to maschinenbau (I live here) :

You may want to consider an NC if the interior space is a major consideration, but you still want the Miata.  There should be more space inside.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/20/21 7:21 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

There's one. 

Debadging is a little more complex than just peeling off stickers. But there are ways. 

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/20/21 6:32 p.m.

Yeah so I'm gonna buy an RF.

I fit great in it now that I understand the seating position and adjustments. The telescoping wheel makes a big difference too. The leather seat feels wider in the bolsters than my Fiat cloth seats did. The leather is perforated and seems to breath well. My first car is an El Camino with black slippery vinyl, and in Georgia the material makes a big difference. The center cubby between the seats isn't quite as deep as the softtop model, probably due to the RF roof mechanisms. I think the blind spots might actually be better than with the softtop. I feel like I can see better and wider out the back of the RF. With the top retracted, it felt a lot more "open" than I expected. I don't feel like I'm missing anything the softtop provides.

First thing I noticed when firing it up was the lack of turbo rumbly noises. Sadness, but still sounds okay. Then I noticed the clutch pedal is way lighter and more linear than the Fiata. Then I noticed the steering felt...more boosted? Lighter? Something about the steering felt less heavy than my Fiata. Or maybe my Fiat's aggressive alignment did that. Off idle the Miata has more guts, easier to get going from a stop, especially with the lighter more consistent clutch. But the midrange is definitely weaker. Not lacking, but just not the rush of torque I'm used to with the Fiat. Howver this engine picks up where the Fiat engine left off. Instead of running out of steam by 6k, it just. keeps. going. Both are fun in different ways, but the Fiat with the exhaust was definitely rowdier and more juvenile. The Miata feels more refined and smoother. 

They really wanted me to buy one of the several red one. I love how it looks on the RF but it's just not my personality. Unfortunately they don't want to dealer-trade a blue one for me since I'm paying S-plan pricing, but they're getting an allocation this weekend and will call me if one is blue. There are other dealers in the area I'm going to hit up though.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/20/21 6:41 p.m.

The ND steering is very sensitive to alignment. That should be your first stop. I don't recall ever noticing a significant difference in effort between the Fiat and the Miata.

You'll get some wind noise running top down at speed. That's about the only downside to the top. It's roughly equivalent to having a roll bar.

The ND2 engine is really fun above 6k. Not easy to access on the street day to day but it sure rewards being wrung out.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
7/20/21 6:51 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think I read somewhere they changed something in the ND2 steering, but yeah Step 1 is alignment. Loved what that did for my Fiat.

Also forgot to mention the Bilsteins are more comfortable than I expected. The Fiat was pretty loose, in that happy Miata chassis dance sort of way, but this Miata feels more stable. And of course, the wind/road noise is much quieter with the RF, though there is still a small wind noise pocket above the side window.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
7/20/21 7:03 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

My RF will be black and debadged to look like a little exotic. It will also be cylindrically enhanced.

Hydraulics so you can bounce down the road like in a Need For Speed open sandbox game?  Neat!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/20/21 7:14 p.m.
maschinenbau said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think I read somewhere they changed something in the ND2 steering, but yeah Step 1 is alignment. Loved what that did for my Fiat.

Also forgot to mention the Bilsteins are more comfortable than I expected. The Fiat was pretty loose, in that happy Miata chassis dance sort of way, but this Miata feels more stable. And of course, the wind/road noise is much quieter with the RF, though there is still a small wind noise pocket above the side window.

That was me :) Not many people know about this because Mazda didn't put it in a press release, but you can feel it right away if you're sensitive to the cars and I have confirmed with engineering. The RF got a reworked steering rack, which made it to the soft top in 2018. Biggest difference is improved on-center feel. But still, they benefit from an alignment because factory alignments are -ish.

The Bilstein suspension used in the current Miatas (again, 2017+ for the RF and 2018+ for the soft top) is quite good.

The ND2 RF did get reworked window seals to deal with the ruffle at speed and it may be possible to adjust the windows, but it's tolerable IMO.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
7/20/21 7:30 p.m.
dps214 said:

I mean the bearings are wear items yeah, but paying someone to do it is like $2k and if it's just a street car probably only needs to be done every 50k miles or maybe even more.

I was seriously looking to buy an E46 M3, because M engine, and fully accepting having to replace the rod bearings every other year.  Shouldn't be too difficult given that the cars were all two wheel drive.

All of them that weren't silly expensive or modified or both were convertibles, and there was maybe a 9:1 ratio of convertibles to hardtops available, regardless.  Hardtop mandatory for something I expected to rallycross.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
7/20/21 7:38 p.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Does anyone know if dealers are obligated to accept S-plan (or similar) in these crazy times?

I'm half looking at a '21 Miata with Recaros that's fallen victim to a $2k "market adjustment" over MSRP, S-plan would make a huge difference.

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