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93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 9:46 a.m.

What kind of spring rates can a standard KYB GR2 handle?

HStockSolo
HStockSolo Reader
2/15/12 10:20 a.m.

My five year old Saturn GR-2s seem to feel better since swapping ~130lb/in stock springs for ~300lb/in H&R Sports. And the stock springs definitely felt better on the stock struts. I'm sure ride feel doesn't correlate directly to handling performance however.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/15/12 10:22 a.m.

I'm running 350lb springs front, 250lb rear on GR2s on the daily driver.

The struts are not strong enough, setup feels underdamped.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 10:30 a.m.

My biggest problem is that there aren't many choices for Yugos as far as struts and I am looking at running a fairly high spring rate.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Reader
2/15/12 10:43 a.m.

GR2s are generally stock replacement parts, so they probably aren't enough for higher spring rates.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Reader
2/15/12 10:46 a.m.

Another possibility is getting a strut cartridge and adapting it to your existing strut housing. I had a similar setup on a 92 Achieva SCX with Bilstein strut cartridge in the factory strut. It was done by Mantapart (worst to deal with ever), but looks like it could have been done for other struts. You would need to find someone who deals in Bilstein (or Koni, similar companies) to see if it is possible.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/15/12 10:49 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: My biggest problem is that there aren't many choices for Yugos as far as struts and I am looking at running a fairly high spring rate.

How high is "fairly high?"

I doubt a Yugo weighs enough that it'll really matter. Just spring it to the point that you never use the struts. THERE I FIXED IT.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
2/15/12 11:04 a.m.

What I would do and I have thought about it a lot. Take some junkyard sourced VW rabbit strut assemblies.

Remove nasty old cartridge, cut off spring perch and lower mount. Weld on appropriate yugo tabs to the bottom (cut 'em off the old piece or fab new from 1/8" plate?) and weld a ring for some ebay coilover sleeves.

Stuff with the readily available billy sport insert and enjoy enough damping for up to 450 in/lbs

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 11:19 a.m.

Why A1 VWs in particular?

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Dork
2/15/12 12:01 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: Why A1 VWs in particular?

....because they came with a strut that had a threaded cap to hold the shock insert in. You use the VW threaded and capped tube to make a Yugo strut that will take any number of VW shock inserts.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 12:04 p.m.
DeadSkunk wrote:
93EXCivic wrote: Why A1 VWs in particular?
....because they came with a strut that had a threaded cap to hold the shock insert in. You use the VW threaded and capped tube to make a Yugo strut that will take any number of VW shock inserts.

Oh. I may have to go to the junkyard...

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/15/12 12:06 p.m.

Yep, the A1 VW strut cartridge fits in the X-1/9/128 strut housing.

Seems like the A1 strut is useful nearly everywhere, my 924 has them, my Chrysler FWD car has a set, etc.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 12:06 p.m.
turboswede wrote: Yep, the A1 VW strut cartridge fits in the X-1/9/128 strut housing. Seems like the A1 strut is useful nearly everywhere, my 924 has them, my Chrysler FWD car has a set, etc.

I thought only the A1 VW KYBs fit in the X1/9 front strut housing...

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
2/15/12 12:22 p.m.

A1 VW struts are also pretty much the shortest available in north america and still enjoy a large aftermarket. And now that cheap coilovers are everywhere for A1's people are offloading konis and billys for cheap.

turboswede wrote: Yep, the A1 VW strut cartridge fits in the X-1/9/128 strut housing. Seems like the A1 strut is useful nearly everywhere, my 924 has them, my Chrysler FWD car has a set, etc.

BMW 2002 and E21 guys use them as well. BMW strut inserts are silly long with very little travel, VW rabbit inserts are nice and short with as much, if not more travel. Cut down stock strut tube, weld back together, insert appropriate bilstein or Koni.??????profit.

Moparman
Moparman HalfDork
2/15/12 12:28 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk:

Why cannot I not visualize this?

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
2/15/12 1:07 p.m.

I knew I still had this pic somewhere.

Photobucket

This is an A1 bilstein sport, The shorter one. The HD is a bit longer and according to Bilstein also has different valving. The measurements were for the X1/9 guys who wanted to know if they would fit.

If it fits in the stock yugo tube then awesome but if not I would eschew the stock yugo/fiat tube altogether and fab one out of the VW pieces

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Dork
2/15/12 2:34 p.m.

In reply to Moparman:
You probably have never looked at a strut that has a threaded cap, is my guess.The cap surrounds the rod and you can take the cap off (with a big mother wrench!). Then the whole guts of the strut comes out in one piece, see Ditchdiggers photo, and you're left with the empty strut housing. Modify the brackets on that housing to fit the upright of any car you would like, in this case a Yugo,and now you can buy aftermarket strut inserts from all the major shock suppliers. I'll see if I can find a photo or diagram of the VW strut assembly.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/15/12 2:41 p.m.
DeadSkunk wrote: In reply to Moparman: You probably have never looked at a strut that has a threaded cap, is my guess.The cap surrounds the rod and you can take the cap off (with a big mother wrench!). Then the whole guts of the strut comes out in one piece, see Ditchdiggers photo, and you're left with the empty strut housing. Modify the brackets on that housing to fit the upright of any car you would like, in this case a Yugo,and now you can buy aftermarket strut inserts from all the major shock suppliers. I'll see if I can find a photo or diagram of the VW strut assembly.

Uhhhh...

Could i potentially use one of these to drastically lower a car and still retain some travel? (Yes, proper care taken to maintain usable geometry.)

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Dork
2/15/12 2:49 p.m.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
If a Rabbit strut is shorter than the struts in the car you have in mind, Yes. I don't know how much you mean by "drastically" though. You can lower your car by building a strut to fit from the Rabbit housing and being sure that you weld on the brackets at the highest point you can, and still not have the bottom end of the strut contact the lower A-arm. I wish we were in a bar with a white board, this would be easier to show/explain.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/15/12 2:52 p.m.

I'm only one state away, start driving, drinks are on me!

But i understood what you just said... basically it's just a way of lowering, but not as easily adjustable, similar to the threaded body coilovers already available for the car i was thinking of, but with the added bonus that the rabbit body might be even shorter on top of it.

Sorry for the thread jack... but you sound smart. Could you explain the suspension setups where the top hats are through the hood?

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Dork
2/15/12 2:59 p.m.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1168636

This is an example of lowering a BMW by modifying the BMW housing, which also holds a cartridge strut in place with a nut, and using a much shorter Rabbit cartridge. You can see a couple of the gland nuts on the red rag in the first pictures.
The top hat method of lowering is a less elegant solution. It just allows the use of a stock length strut by moving the top mounting point higher with a top hat upper bearing holder. I used some on a racing VW I used to have. They moved the bearing up a couple of inches, but were still under the stock hood.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
2/15/12 3:02 p.m.

Cool, that's pretty much what i was thinking.

Don't worry about the top mount through the hood thing, i kindof know how that's done, and it seems to typically involve a tube frame front end.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 3:22 p.m.

So are you saying just take the insert or take the whole assembly and modify it to fit?

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Dork
2/15/12 3:32 p.m.

From what turboswede posted the inserts may go in to the Yugo struts, if Yugo struts are the same as X-1/9 or 128 struts. If not ,get the whole VW strut assemblies and modify them to accept the Yugo knuckles, as Ditchdigger proposed..

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
2/15/12 3:34 p.m.
DeadSkunk wrote: From what turboswede posted the inserts may go in to the Yugo struts, if Yugo struts are the same as X-1/9 or 128 struts. If not ,get the whole VW strut assemblies and modify them to accept the Yugo knuckles.

I have X1/9 struts which more or less bolt up to the front of the Yugo but I was under the impression that only the A1 KYBs fit.

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