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Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 9:50 a.m.

So I have someone interested in my Prius who wants to trade a 2000 Toyota Echo for it. I honestly don't think I'd even heard of this car before, so had to read up on it in general- but wanted to get some thoughts from the GRM Collective before I potentially meet up with the guy this afternoon for us to look the cars over.

Here's what they've said about it so far:

I have a 2-door 2000 Toyota Echo with 221k miles that my wife and I need to replace in order to get a car seat capable car (first kid on the way). It is a 5sp, 221k miles, well maintained mechanically (full synth oil last 50k miles I have had it) but imperfect cosmetically. Could use a clay bar and wax job, rock chips and bad paint on front clip, interior is worn. 40mpg. I put tires on it at 176k and they are wearing evenly with rotation, but probably have less than 10k left on them. I've been hearing some pulley noise at startup lately that I assume is an idler but have not had time to investigate. Has persistent CEL and throws code P0420, low catalyst efficiency, I have not replaced the cat or O2 sensor since drivability is unaffected. AC blows cold. I'd like to get $2k in trade-in for it.

The only thing of that which potentially concerns me I the P0420. I know resolving that without spending the $300+ on a new cat can be a considerable challenge- or resolved for less than $10, it's a complete crap shoot. It's also a considerable question as to just how bad the interior/exterior are, and what the pulley noise is coming from (does it just need a new belt, or worse?)

KBB on one with what I know about it and the base features (no power windows/locks, no CD, etc.) is about $1500, with more power options that goes up to about $1700 in 'good' condition- though with the CEL it's debatable whether it shouldn't be considered 'fair' and be about $2-300 less in value.

So, what does everyone know about these things? What should be looking out for and running away from in a hurry (if not outright without even looking at it)? I would be looking to turn back around and sell it myself. My inclination if it doesn't really strike me as a lost cause is toward counting it as about $1500 toward the trade + the rest of what I'm asking for the Prius in cash.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/23/15 9:55 a.m.

They're decent cheap appliances, 1st-gen Echos like these share a lot of parts with the 1st-gen Prius. 2nd-gen and later were also branded as a Yaris. With the ECU code and pulley noise I'd try to haggle it down by at least the value of a cat.

Edit: What you might like about these is that they're very 80s-ish cars - small, light and simple.

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke Dork
4/23/15 10:02 a.m.

I think there's more of a market for prius than echo with a quarter of a million miles on it. Just food for thought.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
4/23/15 10:06 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: They're decent cheap appliances, 1st-gen Echos like these share a lot of parts with the 1st-gen Prius.

What do they share aside from the block+bottom end?

Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 10:14 a.m.
clutchsmoke wrote: I think there's more of a market for prius than echo with a quarter of a million miles on it. Just food for thought.

That may be true- but I've also not seen a huge amount of interest in the 5 months or so I've had the Prius up for sale, with it almost always being the cheapest 2G Prius in about 150 miles. The potential advantage of the Echo is that I'd be asking a whole lot less for it (hopefully having gotten the majority of the value of the Prius in cash in the trade) and thus appealing to a larger variety of people. Conversely, it IS a 5-speed, which is generally considered an advantage for most of us (will make up some for the lower power) but in the market as a whole limits the potential customer base a lot more than an automatic would.

edit: It's also worth noting that the Echo has almost 50k miles less than my Prius.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/23/15 10:23 a.m.
ProDarwin wrote:
GameboyRMH wrote: They're decent cheap appliances, 1st-gen Echos like these share a lot of parts with the 1st-gen Prius.
What do they share aside from the block+bottom end?

They're supposed to be 2 variants of the same platform, I'll have to check...I'd think suspension would be the same.

Edit: Looks like they only share engine parts, it's the 2nd gen that shares more parts with the Corolla of the same period.

stanger_missle
stanger_missle GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/23/15 11:45 a.m.

Edmunds lists the 2 door base model as weighing 2020lbs. They are light. My best friend's fiance (now wife) had one in college. It was a decent little car. Pretty sprightly too. Sure, it only has 108hp but there isn't a lot of mass to push around.

drummerfromdefleopard
drummerfromdefleopard GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/23/15 12:09 p.m.

It shares chassis and motor with the Scion Xa and first gen xB, so parts availability isn't bad, and there are some suspension bits out there and occasionally even a used supercharger kit that will bolt in surfaces. Supercharging took them to 135-140ish, but in the featherweight Echo with sticky rubber, a fat sway bar and GC setup, you'd have a very fun setup. There are a few limited slip options in the aftermarket as well. Fitting the bits above would make for something that looks like a penalty box, but would drive completely differently.

Canada got a hatch version that I actually really like.

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man HalfDork
4/23/15 12:14 p.m.

They are light, fairly quick with the manual (8.4 to 60), and have the best suspension for rallycross (soft, but still has feel). They're a lot of fun, and hilariously light (like less than a tonne light). My dad has one that's 15 years old with over 200,000km on it, and it runs like a champ.

Check for rust starting inside the rear wheel wells, and wet footwells. Those are the two main issues with these cars.

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man HalfDork
4/23/15 12:16 p.m.

Also, the O2 sensor is probably what's bad. The cats on these are bulletproof.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
4/23/15 1:21 p.m.

Both cars are nearing the end of their useful life "value" wise.

Why not sell said Prius for whatever the market will buy it at, and get a $9k Nissan Micra, possibly with 0% financing if need be?

I'm pretty confident in saying that a 2015 Micra is better than a 2000 Toyota Echo. Used cars have a base rate they typically depreciate to, around here, a mint running driving car that is 10 years old and has over 250,000kms bottoms at $4k, doesn't matter what it is.

I kick myself for not having bought a Hyundai Accent in Canada when they were selling for $9,999cdn, they currently sell for $4k if in good shape over 8 years later

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
4/23/15 1:22 p.m.

^ He does this to make some $. The Micra would be a step in the wrong direction. Besides, you can't buy it in the US anyway.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 1:41 p.m.

ProDarwin is right, the Prius was bought to flip (as well as serve as a temp car while I worked on the wife's SUV), so any deal selling/trading it would need to have the potential to make at least a bit of money off of it (which would almost immediately be put into finding something else to fix up).

That said, I'm also more than guilty of a bit of automotive ADD- I'd be happy with something different to drive for a little while even if I didn't make more money from it + the trade than if I'd just sold the Prius outright. Which is still the best case here- there's a slushbox (want the wife to be able to drive it too) Answer nearby that I'd LOVE to pick up- but even if I could make enough in cash from this trade to buy it I'd not be able to until I sold the Echo due to the wife's adamant insistence that we have no more cars than can actually fit in the driveway.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
4/23/15 1:45 p.m.
ProDarwin wrote: ^ He does this to make some $. The Micra would be a step in the wrong direction. Besides, you can't buy it in the US anyway.

Oh, that's right on both fronts. Well in that case ignore me!

Actually, one more thing. Struggling with a sale is poor business. If you can sell the Prius at break-even, do it so you can use the cash to fund other ventures. Unless you have nothing else planned for a while in the future, then try and get the most money you can. Whatever works.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 2:08 p.m.

I've not been worrying too much about the Prius not selling over the winter- it made a nice winter car while it wasn't really feasible to ride my bike, but now that I should be able to commute on my bike it's not got quite as much utility to it so I'm being a bit more aggressive about selling it- especially since we want a convertible to enjoy for at last part of the summer.

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man HalfDork
4/23/15 2:13 p.m.
Ashyukun wrote: I've not been worrying too much about the Prius not selling over the winter- it made a nice winter car while it wasn't really feasible to ride my bike, but now that I should be able to commute on my bike it's not got quite as much utility to it so I'm being a bit more aggressive about selling it- especially since we want a convertible to enjoy for at last part of the summer.

I know what you need.

Aftermarket? Check. Fun to drive? Check. Not likely to ruin you financially? Check.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 2:24 p.m.
G_Body_Man wrote: I know what you need. Aftermarket? Check. Fun to drive? Check. Not likely to ruin you financially? Check.

Is it anything like this?

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/23/15 2:31 p.m.

I thought the 1st gen prius was based on the echo.. I seem to recall the prius looking a lot like the echo

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man HalfDork
4/23/15 2:33 p.m.
Ashyukun wrote:
G_Body_Man wrote: I know what you need. Aftermarket? Check. Fun to drive? Check. Not likely to ruin you financially? Check.
Is it anything like this?

If you can afford the Miata, and only need two seats, go for it.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun Dork
4/23/15 2:49 p.m.
G_Body_Man wrote:
Ashyukun wrote:
G_Body_Man wrote: I know what you need. Aftermarket? Check. Fun to drive? Check. Not likely to ruin you financially? Check.
Is it anything like this?
If you can afford the Miata, and only need two seats, go for it.

I'll be able to afford it if I sell the Prius. (OK, technically could afford it even without selling it- but prefer keeping my 'automotive toy' fund separate from normal family finances).

We've already got a small SUV, my D, and (once I get off my ass and finish it, ideally for the Challenge- which is another reason I want a non-project car like that Miata for the time being...) the El Camino- another 2-seater is a bit extravagant, but we miss having a convertible with the nice Bluegrass summers (wish I'd never sold my FC convertible to be honest...).

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
4/23/15 2:52 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: I thought the 1st gen prius was based on the echo.. I seem to recall the prius looking a lot like the echo

Not as far as I know. The 1G Prius has a ~7" longer wheelbase, wider track, etc. They both have a 1NZ, that's it. The 1G Prius shares a lot more with the 2G Prius and Corolla of that era.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/23/15 5:14 p.m.

you are correct. I just pulled up pics of the 97 prius and the 99 echo.. they look a -lot- alike, scary alike.. but are different.

echoechoecho
echoechoecho New Reader
4/23/15 8:34 p.m.

I autocross my 2000 echo which I traded for a bicycle, I love the car and I drive it everyday. I got Scion XA drop springs for it but since its 400lbs lighter than the scion it really didnt "drop" so I cut the springs. Its a fun ugly car which is sorta fast and gets 40+mpg.Its a really tall car, I had hoosiers on it and got it on two wheels during a local autocross. the trunk has enough space to put tools, a floor jack, jack stands and a full set of tires. we weighed it at the challenge and it came it at 1950lbs with half a tank of gas. if it wasnt so ugly it would be my perfect car.

stanger_missle
stanger_missle GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/23/15 8:54 p.m.
echoechoecho wrote: I autocross my 2000 echo which I traded for a bicycle...

GRM at it's finest LOL

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon UberDork
4/23/15 9:13 p.m.
stanger_missle wrote:
echoechoecho wrote: I autocross my 2000 echo which I traded for a bicycle...
GRM at it's finest LOL

And they both probably left that transaction thinking "what a sucker!" Lol

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