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rustomatic
rustomatic Reader
5/23/21 8:47 a.m.

I gave you 25 minutes . . . for some reason.  The term "value" necessitates an actual discussion of price.  The term "performance" might point toward an actual comparison to another "performance" vehicle, but the only one you mentioned was the GTO; this was of course about interior quality, not vehicle performance.  The GTO is not a performance comparison beyond drag racing ability.  You mentioned "racing," but all you did with a ZO6 Corvette was take it to the drag strip, something the ZO6 Corvette was not designed for.  The point of accuracy was in use of the term "clickbait."

By the way, Matt Farah (pronounced fair-uh) did own and race a C5 . . .

It seemed like you really hated this car, which was apparently in really nice shape for a nearly 20 year-old car.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/23/21 9:17 a.m.

How much did you buy it for?

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/23/21 9:47 a.m.

That's a bargain ... being able to drive a cool unique car for a while and even have insurance and maintenance paid for ... 

You did well, get over it. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/23/21 10:24 a.m.

I've owned Corvettes and still have a 986S too.  I haven't owned but have driven a few C5s.  Comparing a Corvette to Boxster S is like comparing a scapel to a sledge hammer.  You can do it, but they are so very different in the way they approach speed.  The Corvette has always been about brute force, and Porsches are about precision and lightness.  To me it's always been fascinating that the 911 and Corvette are so close in performance throughout the years while being so wildly different.

I enjoy driving a hammer sometimes which might be why I got another pony car again.  I also love driving a great handling convertible which is why a Boxster or Miata will always be handy to me. 

The real issue with any car is when you set your initial expectations so high they can never meet the hype or the price paid. 

I paid $3500 for my F body so it gets a lot of leeway toward being awesome.  I paid $9900 for my Boxster S which given current pricing leaves it a ton of room to be awesome.  I traded in a loud and brash C4 ZR-1 to get the Boxster, so I walked away from the deal with almost no cash outlay.  The ZR-1 was incredibly fast, but it was an amazing engine surrounded by a C4 Corvette.  The C5 is leaps and bounds a better car than the C4.

And there is always the reality that what might be a perfect car to some, may absolutely be horrible to you. 

Right now I'm looking for the next fun commuter car that will need to get 30+ mpg and be fun to drive for about 2-3 hrs a day.  The next job will likely require me to drive that much after the first year.  That is going to be a tough role to fill.  I need a car that I can put about 125k miles on in 5 years that will be fun to drive and reliable. 

 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
5/23/21 10:40 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Honda Accord Sport manual trans 2.0l.

It's the Type R motor with a smaller turbo and looks to be all adult like   

Wail on it, change the oil, and enjoy. 

https://www.carmax.com/car/19901158

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
5/23/21 3:56 p.m.

So lets see the complaints were..

  • Tires for a limited production sports car costs money and are tough to get
  • Trunk seals are not lubricated so the trunk doesnt pop up
  • Center console lid tough to open
  • Factory should have put a divider between the trunk and the passenger compartment
  • Seat backs move forward (i just buckled the seatbelt on the passenger seat on my C5 - problem solved
  • Feature to add fuel economy is not liked by an enthusiast who is primarily not concerned with fuel economy
  • Steering column interlock may stick (I had 120k on my 2002 with zero issues...)
  • Water runs off the rear glass in a way you dont like. 
  • Dont like that the traction off indicator stays on when traction is turned off (likely government mandated, not GMs fault)

Doesnt seem like an insurmountable list to me.  Didnt really touch on the important stuff like how its a 400 horsepower, manual transmission, very well balanced car with a huge aftermarket, great support, that you can take to a fancy restaurant on Friday, the drag strip on Saturday, and your wife can drive to church and the liquor store on Sunday.  

Recommending a same-era GTO over a Z06 is certainly an interesting option.  Can't fit big tire on them, weak rear ends, worse looks (subjective) no aftermarket, no resale but yeah the interiors are nicer.  

 

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/23/21 5:32 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I like how you paired "wife goes to church and then the liquor store on Sunday".  I think you need to invite me over for a BBQ.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/23/21 5:55 p.m.
docwyte said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I like how you paired "wife goes to church and then the liquor store on Sunday".  I think you need to invite me over for a BBQ.

I will bring the baked beans.  I do BBQ too.  If I posted photos, you guys would all be stopping by more. 

The funny thing to me about the list and video is that most of the issues are known C5 Z06 issues.  They are often discussed on corvetteforum for sure.  All of these things were likely known in advance or could've been known in advance.  It's also a list that given the cars performance is actually not a big deal.  CAGs eliminators are cheap and easy to install.  On the C6 and newer 5th gen Camaros GM just made it a fuse pull.  But for $10 this feature is a non-issue.  I'm working on CAGS and the reverse lockout on my 4th gen F body too.  These are T56 issues common to all T56s and T6060s.  It's not really a "car" issue. 

 

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/23/21 6:05 p.m.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

No, that's not clickbait.

 Yes, it is.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
5/23/21 8:35 p.m.

He just sold his.  Maybe he's having regrets?

But it's weird.  I can't see the original post by Javelin.  And the whole site is excruciatingly slow.  Yes my internet is fine.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/21 10:35 p.m.

Did the original post get deleted?  This thread is not making sense to me. 

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
5/23/21 10:52 p.m.
dean1484 said:

Did the original post get deleted?  This thread is not making sense to me. 

I'm scratching my head too.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/23/21 11:09 p.m.

Yes I think the post I got taken down.  I follow his youtube channel and there is a new post in the past hour that refers to this topic.  I for one really appreciate Javelin's work and contributions here.  I'm sorry if this topic went awry.  That happens from time to time.  There is nothing wrong with not liking a car.  I know we all have cars we do not like and have great followings.  I for one do not like the new Mini Cooper in anyway shape or form.  They kick butt at autocross and do lots of other cool things, but I've never gotten it.  Maybe the C5 was just that way for Javelin.  Making youtube videos is also a royal pain in the rear.  I know my friend Matt makes pretty good ones, and it takes way too much effort and time.  His are getting better though.  He's taken his lumps from the internet on them too. 

I'm really looking forward to his 986 updates though!  Those have good relevance for me. 

No one follows my build thread, but it also doesn't draw attention like this topic did. 

Javelin!  Keep on grinding.  Not every day is everyone's best day! 

Here is Matt's video if you want to see how others approach this hobby. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF8avEonDH0

 

 

dps214
dps214 Dork
5/23/21 11:23 p.m.
93gsxturbo said:

So lets see the complaints were..

  • Tires for a limited production sports car costs money and are tough to get
  • Trunk seals are not lubricated so the trunk doesnt pop up
  • Center console lid tough to open
  • Factory should have put a divider between the trunk and the passenger compartment
  • Seat backs move forward (i just buckled the seatbelt on the passenger seat on my C5 - problem solved
  • Feature to add fuel economy is not liked by an enthusiast who is primarily not concerned with fuel economy
  • Steering column interlock may stick (I had 120k on my 2002 with zero issues...)
  • Water runs off the rear glass in a way you dont like. 
  • Dont like that the traction off indicator stays on when traction is turned off (likely government mandated, not GMs fault)

Doesnt seem like an insurmountable list to me.  Didnt really touch on the important stuff like how its a 400 horsepower, manual transmission, very well balanced car with a huge aftermarket, great support, that you can take to a fancy restaurant on Friday, the drag strip on Saturday, and your wife can drive to church and the liquor store on Sunday.  

Recommending a same-era GTO over a Z06 is certainly an interesting option.  Can't fit big tire on them, weak rear ends, worse looks (subjective) no aftermarket, no resale but yeah the interiors are nicer.  

To further summarize:

-There's a tire shortage (what isn't there a shortage of at the moment?)

-A bunch of stuff that has zero to do with performance

-I didn't and am not going to watch the video, but I must be misunderstanding something on the traction off indicator? I've literally never encountered a car where disabling traction/stability control didn't turn on a warning light.

Oddly, that list of complaints actually highlights why it's a performance bargain - it sucks as an actual car. If all you want is pure cheap performance and don't mind a car that's otherwise super rough around the edges...it's absolutely the best value you're going to get. I'm a porsche fanboy and not at all a corvette guy but I'll willingly concede that if what you want is to go as fast as possible around a track/autocross course with no other considerations on a budget of anything from $15-60k, the right answer is whatever the best generation/trim of corvette you can afford is.

Dead_Sled
Dead_Sled HalfDork
5/23/21 11:33 p.m.

If you want a "really nice C5", which is still a C5, buy a 25k C5 and be disappointed.

If you want the "bang/buck C5", buy a 10-15k 6spd C5 and have fun (sub 10k if auto is ok). 

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/24/21 1:34 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Thank you, that meant a lot.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
5/24/21 3:57 a.m.

Wow, really pissed in some cornflakes...

His post and video whatever he posted was gone by the time I saw this, but I think some people are being a bit harsh on someone who's taking time generating content just because they have a dissenting opinion about a popular platform. 

Keep doing you Jav. 

 

Me? I know I'll never like C5 vettes, but my opinion is biased because my a-hole of a former stepfather had one and every time I see one it makes me think of the person I loathe most in the world. I have to admit they are fast for the money though. My personal bias makes me gravitate towards C4's even though they are objectively worse cars. Neighbor has one sitting on flat tires that I haven't seen move in 5 years. I keep sniffing if he wants to let it go cheap even though I have zero need for another two seat car right now in my life.

 

 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/24/21 6:25 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Sounds like a case of meeting your hero's.  That has happened to me more than a couple times.  

ZOO (Forum Supporter)
ZOO (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/24/21 7:07 a.m.

Every time I've driven a C5 Z06, I've come away with a huge grin on my face.  Not my tires, though :)

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/24/21 7:10 a.m.

As a general rule, I don't watch videos that are dropped in a forum with no discussion. They are trying to generate youtube traffic on someone else's dime. The other forums I frequent don't allow it as well as many FB groups. If the first post is only a video, I just hit the back button and move on. 

On the other hand, if there had been a wall of text stating the things someone didn't like about a C5 with an accompanying video, I probably would have read every word of it and watched the video.

 

 

 

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/24/21 7:18 a.m.

I apologize if I came through as a dick, but the main thing is that Jav said its not a performance bargain ... meanwhile the car cost him nothing ... not even insurance!! 

That in itself is the definition of a performance bargain. A depreciating asset that you can enjoy for a while and cost you zero. 

Opti
Opti Dork
5/24/21 7:51 a.m.

I loved my C5. I bought a rough one and put a little money in it. I think all said and done I was in it about 11K. Probably had 380 hp, a 6 speed, suspension that rode well but still handled, cold ac, nice seats, and was quite a looker. Its all documented in my build thread. I drove that thing all over texas knocking down high 20s in fuel economy.

 

I couldnt think of a better performance bargain while staying that close to oem. it all goes out the window if your going to buy a 500 dollar car and spend 10500 on modifications.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/24/21 8:10 a.m.

I watched the video when he first posted but didn't bother to comment.

Jav is a member here let's give him constructive criticism. Not be a dick about it. Yes he kind of nitpicked one of y'all favorites but I don't think he deserved some of these replies. Now I'm going to make a video on why I don't like the Panther platform and think 90% of wagons are lame and useless. devil

Matt B (fs)
Matt B (fs) UltraDork
5/24/21 8:29 a.m.

I feel like there's a few replies here that could've channeled this guy before posting.

 

Anyway I've like the idea of a C5 Z06 for a while, but as usual the reality is probably a bit different.  I'm not sure I'd come to the same conclusion, but your complaints are noted Jav.  Have a good one and keep it up.

Opti
Opti Dork
5/24/21 8:33 a.m.

In reply to yupididit :

id watch that video

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