1 2 3 4 5
mikeatrpi
mikeatrpi HalfDork
1/20/19 8:33 p.m.

Wow that guy likes to put his fingers awfully close to the spinny bits of the angle grinder

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
1/20/19 8:48 p.m.

And yet, at his age, appears to still have his fingers. wink

Let's just accept that a 2.5 NC is more reliable than a 2.5 Boxster you could probably get for around the same money. And that it's probably faster. But I'm curious as to how much?

 

Cool thread. I feel like just this long series of pics and captions could make a lot of people who were on the fence suddenly willing to jump in.

NickD
NickD UberDork
1/21/19 9:42 a.m.

Another future option for NCs is that Track Dog Racing just announced they are starting development on a Rotrex supercharger kit for the NC. I have their NA/NB kit, and it pulls like a freight train. Interesting to see what they do on the NC.

Floating Doc
Floating Doc Dork
1/21/19 9:49 a.m.

I like the NC, but since my purpose of owning a Miata is primarily street class autocross, I'm not really looking at them. I hope they get moved to another class eventually.

If I could own another one for a fun driver, the 2.5 swap sounds great. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/21/19 10:16 a.m.
stuart in mn said:

For us uninitiated people, what car does the 2.5 liter engine come from?

From Wiki

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/21/19 10:56 a.m.

On page #1 it says that Goodwin only charges $1,500 for the labor on this engine swap.  That sounds like a very good value (expect that for me Goodwin is on the other side of the country.)  

This lead me to wonder just how much a junkyard 2.5L would sell for.  I hopped on the car-part.com and searched Ford Escape.  I got this range of good prices in my area:

  • $725 from a 2016 Escape w/ 10k miles 
  • $650 from a 2016 Escape w/ 20k miles 
  • $350 from a 2010 Escape w/ 100k miles
  • $350 from a 2010 Escape w/ 69k miles
Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
1/21/19 11:08 a.m.

 

On page #1 it says that Goodwin only charges $1,500 for the labor on this engine swap.  That sounds like a very good value

Yeah, if nothing else about this thread tells you that the swap is easy, that should! 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
1/21/19 11:09 a.m.

Any other thoughts on the engine character for this swap? How fun is the engine? While a cam swap doesn't bring a big power increase, does it significantly enhance the character of the engine?

bmw88rider
bmw88rider SuperDork
1/21/19 12:11 p.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Those are all high prices. I've gotten 2 from LKQ for the low $300s with under 30K miles. 

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/21/19 12:21 p.m.

In reply to bmw88rider :

Wow, even more impressive.  

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
1/21/19 12:57 p.m.

Yeah kinda wish they had not added the improvements they did, just to show a back to back with stock for stock.

Still, the improvements added weren’t too extravagant, but maybe not something many shade tree swappers would do.

Glad to see the swap get a more focused documentation with the clear whys and why nots spelled out.  Makes this much easier for those considering it at home.

Jeremy, BTW your ecotec swap vibrated due to the race engine mounts plus the lack of balance shafts.  Put proper mounts in and it might be livable, hard to say since it appears that solid mounts are all that is available for that swap.  It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.  Other manufacturers may have similar issues to overcome, so don’t be surprised when the balance shaft-less engines potentially have issues downstream.

Floating Doc
Floating Doc Dork
1/21/19 1:17 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

I've never thought of balance shafts in the context of the harmonics causing engine damage. It seems to me that deserves consideration when deciding whether to retain them, especially in high RPM applications.

NickD
NickD UberDork
1/21/19 1:20 p.m.
Stefan said:

It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.  

Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.

Floating Doc
Floating Doc Dork
1/21/19 1:23 p.m.
NickD said:
Stefan said:

It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.  

Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.

That may say more about the engineering team than about balance shafts in general.

calteg
calteg Dork
1/21/19 1:34 p.m.

Any dyno results?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
1/21/19 1:59 p.m.
Floating Doc said:
NickD said:
Stefan said:

It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.  

Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.

That may say more about the engineering team than about balance shafts in general.

Which Jeep 2.5L?  The old GM iron duke 2.5L or the Chrysler 2.5L?

The GM 2.5L was never known for idle quality and yes, Chrysler used it for many years in Jeeps and other vehicles after they bought Jeep/AMC (one of the many reasons why manufacturer shared drivetrains tend to screw up classing more often than not).

The Chrysler 2.5L had balance shafts, roller rocker camshafts and in Turbo form, sequential EFI to help reduce NVH.  The Trucks had TBI so they just sucked and we’re typically found on the low end rigs that hadn’t bought the larger engine model.

bluej
bluej UberDork
1/21/19 2:33 p.m.
bmw88rider said:

In reply to John Welsh :

Those are all high prices. I've gotten 2 from LKQ for the low $300s with under 30K miles. 

 

Yep, this. I got mine from them via eBay for less than $300. It did have valve cover damage, though.

_
_ Reader
1/21/19 3:45 p.m.

Jesus, $1,800.00 for a swapped engine and .5L of displacement? That may just be the cheapest swap ever in a Miata, that’s done by a real shop.  (Not by Bubba Taniguchi, who watched a YouTube video 15mins beforehand.) 

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
1/21/19 3:46 p.m.

Would this engine attached to a Miata gearbox be a good candidate for an MGB?  Assuming I could make it fit in the engine bay?

 

Pete

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/21/19 3:50 p.m.

That's basically the drivetrain from the LE50. It uses the 2.0, so you just have to deal with some extra height.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/21/19 10:21 p.m.

I'm also curious about deleting the balance shafts. I feel like the millions and millions spent on engine development by OEMs wouldn't have added extra cost and complexity for no reason.

 

I really loved my NC, and an easy well documented swap would consider me picking up an NC and swapping it vs getting an ND.

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
1/22/19 9:22 a.m.

Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.

I dont know about the old Iron Duke but the AMC 2.5 didn't have balance shafts and the Chrysler 2.5 wasn't used in Jeeps that I can remember.

I have removed balance shafts from pretty much all my 2.5 Chryslers. My results have actually varied but i think more on the condition of the engine mounts than anything else. I've had some where you just couldn't tell. I tried solid mounts on one and it was torture. I have heard of engines with crank-mounted oil pumps cracking oil pump gears at high rpms due to some kind of bad harmonics but I dont think it had to do with the absence of balance shafts.

 

Only once in my life have i seen mis-timed balance shafts. The engine ran like it had a dead miss, but worse. Serious shaking.  

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
1/22/19 11:25 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.

bluej
bluej UberDork
1/22/19 2:22 p.m.
DeadSkunk said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.

'01 up got the 2.3 version, sans balance shafts.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/22/19 2:34 p.m.
bluej said:
DeadSkunk said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.

'01 up got the 2.3 version, sans balance shafts.

Did it have a different crank? Same rev limit? Hp/TQ output? etc. 

1 2 3 4 5
Our Preferred Partners
i4WYVfum5XMbXEqhFCEDUtcbyoAdzsy3ZILvNKn6ZR1TXN4hIHUxRSmaYaKoA3eM