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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 12:20 p.m.

MotorsportsGordon
MotorsportsGordon Reader
4/20/18 12:20 p.m.

this was the car that got the chevron manufacture started. The whole clubman class  is what got many of the uks famous race designers and manufacturers their start.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 12:22 p.m.

Now that we get the point of what they are- I'm still wondering why there are not plans to build your own chassis, like the Locost.  This set up would work well in a DM kind of car, since the 7 is already popular, and the offset engine makes it even more mid location.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 12:24 p.m.

Yes, I"ve fallen deep down this rabbit hole on a number of occasions many times in the past, hence this selection of images I've saved over the years.  I think the key would be to really focus on ACBC's moto, 'Simplify and add lightness'  Don't go too advance.  Rely on simplicity, low polar moment and low CG and cheap components.  There's no reason a car should way more than 1,000lb's with a lightish engine even with a steel live axle.  One huge advantage of the old Ford Kent engine was that even though it was an iron block and head, it was tiny being pushrod and very light.  I often though about a Suzuki / Geo Tracker engine and rear axle would be a great start.

Damn it Eric, now you've re-opened the rabbit hole and I'll move on from daydreaming about DP Miata's to a simple Clubmans car again.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
4/20/18 12:31 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

because its likely not something people are interested in buying who aren't already looking at a more traditional Lotus Seven, Stalker, Midlana which tend to be more versatile and they want that classic design.

MotorsportsGordon
MotorsportsGordon Reader
4/20/18 12:34 p.m.

Ben bowlby designed and built this Suzuki powered car while in university.

MotorsportsGordon
MotorsportsGordon Reader
4/20/18 12:35 p.m.
Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
4/20/18 12:42 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

We get the idea.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 12:48 p.m.
Stefan said:

In reply to alfadriver :

because its likely not something people are interested in buying who aren't already looking at a more traditional Lotus Seven, Stalker, Midlana which tend to be more versatile and they want that classic design.

Right, nobody wants to BUY one- I'm wondering why there are not modifications to the Locost design for people to BUILD one.  We are talking DM here, so it's a single purpose item.  

 

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
4/20/18 12:49 p.m.
alfadriver said:

I'm still wondering why there are not plans to build your own chassis, like the Locost.  

Locost is a street car, which has a much bigger market.  I'm not sure of any dedicated single-seat race cars that are currently competitive in any class that are offered in 'plans' form.

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
4/20/18 12:52 p.m.
alfadriver said:
Stefan said:

In reply to alfadriver :

because its likely not something people are interested in buying who aren't already looking at a more traditional Lotus Seven, Stalker, Midlana which tend to be more versatile and they want that classic design.

Right, nobody wants to BUY one- I'm wondering why there are not modifications to the Locost design for people to BUILD one.  We are talking DM here, so it's a single purpose item.  

 

If you are capable of building a Locost, you don't need that detailed of plans in the first place.  You will be (or will become) more than capable of modifying the plans as necessary to suit your needs, as the reality of the existing available plans means you're probably going to have to at least do some of that anyway. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 12:55 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

Thank you for the lecture.  But that doesn't really answer the question.  Again, the recent thread about the Camaro and Loosecannon's B makes me wonder.  Is there something wrong with asking?

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
4/20/18 12:57 p.m.

It's not a lecture...It's an answer to the question that was asked.  If that's not the question you want answered, ask a different question.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 12:59 p.m.
alfadriver said:

Right, nobody wants to BUY one- I'm wondering why there are not modifications to the Locost design for people to BUILD one.  We are talking DM here, so it's a single purpose item.  

 

Would a Clubmans type car be D Mod?  I thought that had to be a production silhouette?  To me the smaller Clubmans cars would be B Mod (i.e. Sports racers)  as they have shorter wheelbase and are narrower than those big heavy bloated '7' type cars.  Note that most '7' replica's are way bigger than the original Super 7 which only had  an 88"wheelbase and 16" wide seats.

Lotus Seven blueprint

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 1:00 p.m.
Driven5 said:

It's not a lecture...It's an answer to the question that was asked.  If that's not the question you want answered, ask a different question.

One post was that the market is too small, which is a decent answer, the other was "build it yourself" which wasn't what I was asking.  

None the less, given the number of these cars that have been made, it's not really a stretch to wonder why plans for one didn't make it into the Locost world.  

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 1:00 p.m.
Driven5 said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

We get the idea.

Sorry, I thought a)everyone loves pics and b) I was trying to show the variety and details of these wonderful creations.  I have more but will refraine.  

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 1:03 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

For NA motors up to 2.0l or boosted with some restrictions, DM.  Yes, it appears that a Clubman is shorter (too short) for a 7, but the 7 arrangement does look like you can move the engine diagonally back some, helping weight distribution and moment of inertia, as well as freeing up space for longer front control arms (similar to the underside picture of the Camaro in the other thread).

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 1:03 p.m.
alfadriver said:

One post was that the market is too small, which is a decent answer, the other was "build it yourself" which wasn't what I was asking.  

None the less, given the number of these cars that have been made, it's not really a stretch to wonder why plans for one didn't make it into the Locost world.  

There once was a market and a healthy one in the UK.  they were a cheap way to get a very fast race car.  I think there are several issues today.

a)Most racing is spec and not open

b) the racing that is open tends to be at a higher level than this, as no one thinks small engines and live axles are cool anymore

c) 'Locost's' and '7's' have largely replaced clubmans as peoples idea of what a small, light, cheap, race car is and most people want to take a passenger with them at some point.

 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
4/20/18 1:04 p.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

For NA motors up to 2.0l or boosted with some restrictions, DM.  Yes, it appears that a Clubman is shorter (too short) for a 7, but the 7 arrangement does look like you can move the engine diagonally back some, helping weight distribution and moment of inertia, as well as freeing up space for longer front control arms.

I think you will find many of the 'Locost 7's out there in D Mod are already built like that with the engine set back and offset.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 1:06 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:
alfadriver said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

For NA motors up to 2.0l or boosted with some restrictions, DM.  Yes, it appears that a Clubman is shorter (too short) for a 7, but the 7 arrangement does look like you can move the engine diagonally back some, helping weight distribution and moment of inertia, as well as freeing up space for longer front control arms.

I think you will find many of the 'Locost 7's out there in D Mod are already built like that with the engine set back and offset.

Seems like it, but the pictures I've seen of DM care seem like they are more traditional layouts than the EM cars.  Thanks to Robbie, I've also done the mental layout of an X 1/9 DM car.  

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
4/20/18 1:09 p.m.
alfadriver said:

...the other was "build it yourself" which wasn't what I was asking.  

Simply by virtue of asking about plans...to build it yourself from...that's already a given part of the project you're asking about.  So you seem to have completely missed the point of 'the other' post.  Rather it was actually 'the other' half of the explanation as to WHY there isn't enough demand among people who would already inherently be building it themselves anyway...Which as far as I am aware, as it's an extension of what you also called a 'decent answer', IS still a part of what you were ultimately asking. 

MotorsportsGordon
MotorsportsGordon Reader
4/20/18 1:09 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:
alfadriver said:

One post was that the market is too small, which is a decent answer, the other was "build it yourself" which wasn't what I was asking.  

None the less, given the number of these cars that have been made, it's not really a stretch to wonder why plans for one didn't make it into the Locost world.  

There once was a market and a healthy one in the UK.  they were a cheap way to get a very fast race car.  I think there are several issues today.

a)Most racing is spec and not open

b) the racing that is open tends to be at a higher level than this, as no one thinks small engines and live axles are cool anymore

c) 'Locost's' and '7's' have largely replaced clubmans as peoples idea of what a small, light, cheap, race car is and most people want to take a passenger with them at some point.

 

I think the clubmans were also affected by the introduction of classes like formula vee  and ford etc

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
4/20/18 1:10 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:
Driven5 said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

We get the idea.

Sorry, I thought a)everyone loves pics and b) I was trying to show the variety and details of these wonderful creations.  I have more but will refraine.  

I'm still confused and need more pictures. Seriously, do a dump of what you have. I'm especially interested in the early cars on narrow tires. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
4/20/18 1:11 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:

More like this please. I can see myself building something like this as a road car. 

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/18 1:13 p.m.
alfadriver said:
Adrian_Thompson said:
alfadriver said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

For NA motors up to 2.0l or boosted with some restrictions, DM.  Yes, it appears that a Clubman is shorter (too short) for a 7, but the 7 arrangement does look like you can move the engine diagonally back some, helping weight distribution and moment of inertia, as well as freeing up space for longer front control arms.

I think you will find many of the 'Locost 7's out there in D Mod are already built like that with the engine set back and offset.

Seems like it, but the pictures I've seen of DM care seem like they are more traditional layouts than the EM cars.  Thanks to Robbie, I've also done the mental layout of an X 1/9 DM car.  

Looking through 2 years of championships- '13 didn't seem to have any with an offset engine, but 2017 clearly had 2.  

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