Come to the conclusion my car needs a traction aid. It's 95% a beat around daily drive, 5% drag racing and I'd like to get into a bit of autocross with it as well.
A torsen style limited slip would be great, but the ease and price of a simple lunchbox locker is very appealing. What say GRM?
The car in question is a 1978 Impala station wagon sporting considerable more HP than stock and a manual trans.
Ive been considering ine for my truck. Subbed for feedback!
In a truck you can get away with it because the back end is so light that the tires can skip around a bit without too much trouble, but that B body wagon has a lot of weight over the rear end. If it's like my old one, it also has the 8.5" 10 bolt rear end, which is not bad but probably not up to the task of lunchbox locking if you also have decent tires on it. That's a lot of torque to put through the axles and the locker itself, and something has to give/slip somewhere.
It may or may not bother you, but the noise they make drives me nuts.
My only experience with them firsthand was short drives in a 2wd S10 with crappy stock size tires and a jeep XJ that was lifted/regeared/etc. The jeep was obnoxious, though I guess you'd eventually get used to planning your turns so you could coast until you were going straight again. The S10 was livable mainly because you could slide it everywhere to avoid the hopping/ratcheting.
I have one in the C10. It's fine. I mean, it already had the turning radius of a 66 passenger school bus so it's not that big of an issue parking.
exactly the mixed responses I expected.
I don't expect the noise to bother me, but am more concerned with adverse handling effect. Yes, the car is a boat but i have tried to make it handle somewhat decent for its size and purpose.
at the end of the day I i don't want to have to set up my gearset again when switching to a full case locker/limited slip. It is pure laziness/frugalness more than anything. But I am tired of the one wheel peel of its current state.
My friend put a lunchbox in his G body Monte Carlo with a turbo LS1 swap, so far it has worked really well and is not nearly as noisy or annoying as the internet said it would be. If your exhaust is remotely louder than stock you probably won't notice the locker much. We've driven that car pretty hard in a straight line with no issues, and I hustled it through some corners on the windy two lane where I live and couldn't find anything to dislike about the diff. Your car is probably a bit heavier though..
So, how do they behave in tight turns at parking soeeds? Like backing up a trailer, or parking, or maneuvers around a congested driveway, etc? Any issues in inclement weather with them causing sudden oversteer?
I thats my concern about lockers.
I've read they are less forgiving with a manual transmission. I'd read up on installing one in my XJ for snow duty but decided against for dry days.
In reply to buzzboy :
It's very unforgiving until youuse the clutch. I learned to clutch/neutral before turn in to make it easier. Under power you better plan on sliding it in.
Abrupt turn ahead
Has anyone put an air locker on a street car? I assume it is possible if it is still available.
And it wouldn't be cheap.
They're unrefined and a little bit unpredictable. Based on your brief description of the rest of the car It actually sounds like a perfect match.
It's going to completely depend on what springs you have in it. 250 lb springs, not bad. 800 lb springs, you might as well have just welded the spider gears.
I would much rather have an Eaton-style LSD with 400-600 lb springs. Unless you're packing 500 ft-lbs under the hood, you won't blow past 400 lb springs.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:It's going to completely depend on what springs you have in it. 250 lb springs, not bad. 800 lb springs, you might as well have just welded the spider gears.
I would much rather have an Eaton-style LSD with 400-600 lb springs. Unless you're packing 500 ft-lbs under the hood, you won't blow past 400 lb springs.
Lunchbox lockers aren't tunable and the springs don't affect when they lockup. If you're under power or engine braking they're locked. Otherwise they ratchet. I've only experienced them in an off-road rig that handled horribly anyway so I can't say for sure but I would expect them to tend towards power on understeer but a lift is all that it takes to unlock them.
A friend pulled the locker out of his Blazer and ran a spool instead. Said at least the spool was predictable.
I don't like lockers. They have some very unwanted side effects, anyone who has a choice of a more traditional LSD uses those.
My advice has always been save up the money until you can buy a proper limited slip if money is the issue.
Dusterbd13-michael said:So, how do they behave in tight turns at parking soeeds? Like backing up a trailer, or parking, or maneuvers around a congested driveway, etc? Any issues in inclement weather with them causing sudden oversteer?
I thats my concern about lockers.
Completely simple compared to a tight clutch pack diff. It turns as freely as an open diff, just one that talks a lot. A LOT.
The only really weird thing would be when towing a trailer in the rain, sometimes it would do a little one-two side to side jig in the back when going back on throttle from coasting. It did it without the trailer, too, but you noticed it more when there was a tail back there for it to wag.
I took it out in favor of a (not very aggressive) clutch pack diff because in competition, the thing kept unlocking under power, which is a thing that should not happen. And the handling was kinda bad in a rear weight biased car.
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:A friend pulled the locker out of his Blazer and ran a spool instead. Said at least the spool was predictable.
I bought the locker because it, in theory, had the same handling under power as a spool, but without the potential for breaking things on the street.
The problem was, it had the same handling under power as a spool but not any other time. When it wasn't disengaging one of the wheels while under power.
APEowner said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:It's going to completely depend on what springs you have in it. 250 lb springs, not bad. 800 lb springs, you might as well have just welded the spider gears.
I would much rather have an Eaton-style LSD with 400-600 lb springs. Unless you're packing 500 ft-lbs under the hood, you won't blow past 400 lb springs.
Lunchbox lockers aren't tunable and the springs don't affect when they lockup. If you're under power or engine braking they're locked. Otherwise they ratchet. I've only experienced them in an off-road rig that handled horribly anyway so I can't say for sure but I would expect them to tend towards power on oversteer but a lift is all that it takes to unlock them.
Power on UNDERsteer. When it is locked up (and you will know this by the sound of its silence) in a corner, the inside wheel will be getting more torque than the outside, just like a spool, so this will fight your ability to corner.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:APEowner said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:It's going to completely depend on what springs you have in it. 250 lb springs, not bad. 800 lb springs, you might as well have just welded the spider gears.
I would much rather have an Eaton-style LSD with 400-600 lb springs. Unless you're packing 500 ft-lbs under the hood, you won't blow past 400 lb springs.
Lunchbox lockers aren't tunable and the springs don't affect when they lockup. If you're under power or engine braking they're locked. Otherwise they ratchet. I've only experienced them in an off-road rig that handled horribly anyway so I can't say for sure but I would expect them to tend towards power on oversteer but a lift is all that it takes to unlock them.
Power on UNDERsteer. When it is locked up (and you will know this by the sound of its silence) in a corner, the inside wheel will be getting more torque than the outside, just like a spool, so this will fight your ability to corner.
Yes, you are correct. In my head that's what I typed. I'm going to go back and fix that. Thank you.
I have a Spartan in my truck. It's fine most of the time. Turns under acceleration give you a chirp chirp chirp from the inside tire. Coasting turns you get the click click click. This is with 35" MT tires. I'd guess something with more grip on pavement would behave differently and be more difficult to turn.
As far as surprises in slippery conditions there shouldn't be any unless you suddenly change throttle input mid corner.
sounds like a less than ideal option. guess I'll just get a proper limited slip and be done. the car has enough driving quirks, adding to the list by coasting through corners is not appealing.
noddaz said:Abrupt turn ahead
Has anyone put an air locker on a street car? I assume it is possible if it is still available.
And it wouldn't be cheap.
I run E-lockers in my truck that gets driving primarily on the street. locked like a spool when i want, flip of a switch and it is back to a full open diff. Great for a truck and off road when i know i will need it locked. but on a street car, could be great for drag racing but on a street car i would think a limited slip would be better. you would give the locker a workout flipping it on and off in corners and such.
I put a Spartan locker in the rear axle of my XJ. I despise the thing. Unpredictable is a good way to put it. It locks when it wants to. It gets stuck locked and then releases with a horrible bang. In a car used primarily for drag, I'd consider it. In a street car, no way. While mine works perfectly off-road, it is coming out as soon as the LSD I ordered comes in.
I absolutely love the helical/torsen diff in my C10. I put one in the V8 Firefly as well, which is probably what kept it out of the ditch. I will be putting one in my '61 C10 as well. I love them!
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