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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/20 10:34 a.m.

Well, when you're talking to Koni, it's suspension :) And I think it's more of a problem with suspension because the expensive/difficult parts are impossible to see. A cheap useless coilover looks almost exactly like a high end race shock from the outside. With something like a turbo kit, the differences are right there to see.

It's not hard to find quality aftermarket parts. You go to specialists that you trust and you can actually talk to. Even better, to specialists that do product development. Yes, it'll cost more. That's because building quality parts costs money, and developing quality parts costs money, and supporting quality parts costs money.

Don't want to pay that money? Then you're stuck with the bottom of the barrel E36 M3 that you find on eBay and being peddled by Max Pee Dingrods. And when your marque specialists go out of business, you complain that nobody is making quality parts for your car.

_
_ Dork
1/10/20 10:49 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Well said. There is a level of diy with eBay parts that can be obtainable, but in the end, you're still feeding the vultures of our economy. 

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/10/20 10:50 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Well, when you're talking to Koni, it's suspension :) And I think it's more of a problem with suspension because the expensive/difficult parts are impossible to see. A cheap useless coilover looks almost exactly like a high end race shock from the outside. With something like a turbo kit, the differences are right there to see.

It's not hard to find quality aftermarket parts. You go to specialists that you trust and you can actually talk to. Even better, to specialists that do product development. Yes, it'll cost more. That's because building quality parts costs money, and developing quality parts costs money, and supporting quality parts costs money.

Don't want to pay that money? Then you're stuck with the bottom of the barrel E36 M3 that you find on eBay and being peddled by Max Pee Dingrods. And when your marque specialists go out of business, you complain that nobody is making quality parts for your car.

Oh, no, Keith is channeling a goose.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/20 11:00 a.m.

I don't know what that means. Do you disagree with my statement?

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/10/20 11:02 a.m.

Dang. Humor fail on my part.

The goose is Canadian, and it's irritated. Probably because somebody is doing something dumb, like getting too close to the nest. Or buying cheap parts and then complaining that there are no good parts available.

I don't disagree with your statement.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/10/20 12:39 p.m.

I hate doing suspension work.  I always ask myself, do I want to do this twice?  Answering that question is almost always NO, so I'm usually willing to spend more ensuring it's done right the first time.  How many real competitive race cars have you seen on fleabay coilovers?  Ever wonder why?  

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
1/10/20 1:23 p.m.

For a daily driven Miata with a secondary purpose in track and autocross for very reasonable money i am super happy with FM sways and Vmaxx Classics 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/20 3:52 p.m.
_ said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Well said. There is a level of diy with eBay parts that can be obtainable, but in the end, you're still feeding the vultures of our economy. 

What you're doing in that case is doing the R&D yourself, using the cheap parts as raw material. There's definitely a place for that - the first step in any FM suspension is usually something I've managed to cobble together out of the parts I have on my shelves. I use that to narrow down the various parameters such as rough spring balance and ride height, then we start building custom parts. The NC in particular ran a very, umm, homebrew coilover setup to determine the spring tuning. You'll spend a lot of time making mistakes/breaking things/trying different setups. It's a great education.

But that's a pretty small subset of the market.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/20 3:55 p.m.
Justjim75 said:

For a daily driven Miata with a secondary purpose in track and autocross for very reasonable money i am super happy with FM sways and Vmaxx Classics 

Thanks Jim. We tested a LOT of different coilovers (some from names you'll have heard of, some you haven't) before finding the V-Maxx and deciding they had promise. Then we got V-Maxx to wind us custom springs and change out a few other things. Naturally, this pushed the price up a bit and we took some flak for that. You can buy "grey market" V-Maxx from outside the US, but what you get is the version without the extra R&D and fine tuning to make it actually work.

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/20 4:05 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Well, when you're talking to Koni, it's suspension :) And I think it's more of a problem with suspension because the expensive/difficult parts are impossible to see. A cheap useless coilover looks almost exactly like a high end race shock from the outside. With something like a turbo kit, the differences are right there to see.

They go low, what else is there to know about suspension?  Geez you make it so complicated.  Obviously the MPR suspension is better because it costs less.  And they can go lower than Konis.  Checkmate!

 

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/10/20 11:34 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
Justjim75 said:

For a daily driven Miata with a secondary purpose in track and autocross for very reasonable money i am super happy with FM sways and Vmaxx Classics 

Thanks Jim. We tested a LOT of different coilovers (some from names you'll have heard of, some you haven't) before finding the V-Maxx and deciding they had promise. Then we got V-Maxx to wind us custom springs and change out a few other things. Naturally, this pushed the price up a bit and we took some flak for that. You can buy "grey market" V-Maxx from outside the US, but what you get is the version without the extra R&D and fine tuning to make it actually work.

I'll second and third this..  I have the Vmaxx Classics (before the new spanner wrench design, even!) with the RB sways, and my car was compelling enough that three or four other people bought them for a street/light track/autocross toy.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
1/11/20 6:15 a.m.

I've got th tried and true Koni ground control sleeve eibach spring combo.  It works. 
 

im fine with buying foreign parts just want ones from proper companies not these copy cat private label amazon and eBay machines run out of someone's garage.  

Yes I know you that YouTube video told you how to be a millionaire. Yes. Alibaba is easy to use.  Nope.. you're not a business genuis..

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
1/11/20 1:12 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I've had 2 back surgeries and because of some terrible lowering springs i had on a 320 horse Volvo 850 wagon, i have been scared to upgrade suspension for fear of a harsh ride.  The Vmaxx's provide better handling AND a more compliant ride as evidenced by reduced cowl shake and comments from regular passengers. A true win/win.

Chbright
Chbright New Reader
9/3/22 12:27 p.m.

Bump. 

They ship right?

For 55 they have "civic integra" splitter quick release setup. For 55 im tempted to go ahead and try. Its a risk but not hundred+ risk.

https://www.maxpeedingrods.com/product/front-bumper-wind-splitter-support-bracket-92-00-for-civic-integra-with-bolts69.html

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/3/22 12:43 p.m.

There's another thread where I got my hands on a set of the shocks and evaluated them. TL:DR, not better than blown stock shocks and with fundamental design problems that would not be fixed with a revalve  if they could be revalved.

But the surface quality of the machining was good. No idea what the material might have been like, but good machine setup. So a steel splitter bracket might be the best thing you could buy from them. Just inspect regularly for cracks. 

Chbright
Chbright New Reader
9/3/22 1:10 p.m.

Keith

Kinda my thoughts on it. Unless it's pot metal, and thin (which it looks okish).

Shocks, I saw your other thread before and know to stay clear of their coilovers.

I'll report back how good/bad they look as well as how the locking works. Now I'm not using them on a civic/integra so I know I'm tweaking some of it. But let's see if the fit of the parts is even there and if it locks as intended. Cause at 55 shipped, if it's a cause of adding 1 plate per side to work, I'm down at that price.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
9/3/22 9:02 p.m.

I recently owned a 1989 Jetta that the previous owner fitted with Max Pee Dingrods coilovers. That car had the worst ride quality of anything I've ever owned. The shocks were almost certainly blown. The springs were 400 lb/in, which is pretty stiff for a street-driven 1900 lb car, so I actually bought some 220lb/in springs and swapped them out. Didn't make a bit of difference. The car still rode like trash.  Granted, I live in Cleveland which has some of the worst potholes in the country, but these were just garbage. Their other parts, like that splitter bracket, might work. I won't touch their coilovers though.

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