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AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
9/28/20 9:59 p.m.

For a couple decades I drove old Ford trucks when I wanted to haul a heavy trailer. '72 to '89 models. F-250 and 350. Solid, easy, dependable. Old, rough, beaters. Eventually I decided to join the 21st century and searched for a decent, affordable family hauler/tow pig.

After looking at all the newer American diesel trucks; their cost and their issues, I gave up on them. I bought two Cayennes, an '04 and an '05. Both were S models (gas V8), but the trim and options were very different. Air ride was cool, but un-needed and developed issues with age. Both were very comfortable, had good power and braking. Towing a Boxster on a trailer with no trailer brakes was not a problem. I've had lots of good miles from them with only maintenance and minor repairs. Last year, I decided to update not because of a problem, but because I wanted a newer, lower mile vehicle. My daughter has the '04 Cayenne now with 175k+ miles and loves it.

I wanted a 2010 - 2014 Cayenne GTS or a 'S' model based on price and mileage. The 3.6L VR6 models are still reported to do well towing and could be a good option, but I like the NA V8. COVID hit when I was ready to buy and I ended up getting an '04 Sequoia as a fill-in tow pig until things stabilized. I like the Sequoia, but it does not have the power or braking that I was used to with the Cayennes for towing. The '05 and later models have better brakes and more power and there's plenty of good advice on them here on the forum. The Sequoia is a big truck vs the Cayenne. I have put 10' lumber inside, the seats (with third row seating) are easy to remove and install, and the ergonomics and 'space' are better than the Cayenne. 

I'm keeping the Sequoia as a grandkid hauler and back-up tow pig, but I love, love, love the 2012 TDI Touareg that I recently bought. I'd still prefer the TDI Cayenne, but money. Read Docwyte's thread if you haven't already. My 2012 T-pig is a Dieselgate car and has a 4 year 48k mile drivetrain warranty that started about 1 year ago. For towing, the 3.0 TDI feels about the same as the 4.5L V8 that my Porsches had, but I get just under 30 mpg cruising on the highway vs 16 - 18 with the Porsche. Towing I get close to 20 MPG vs 12 - 15 with the Porsche V8. 

There's a broad range of great vehicles that will fit your needs. I strongly considered a 2013 Yukon Denali or a Ford Expedition and may have gone that way if I hadn't already had the Cayennes. For me, the Touareg feels right.

 

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/29/20 12:42 a.m.

I really enjoy my LR3. You should test drive one and you will see the appeal.

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan UberDork
9/29/20 12:56 a.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin :

Saw this one earlier today on CL.

I think Tim is in the mid Atlantic region.

LR3.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/29/20 11:27 a.m.

In reply to AAZCD (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks, that's a great writeup. Really sounds like I should consider the Touareg.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/29/20 11:30 a.m.

In reply to nutherjrfan :

I am a bit outside DC and I couldn't help but notice how many LR3s appear to be for sale there. I hadn't seen the one you linked to yet, but it's even on my side of DC and doesn't look too bad.


OTOH we already have one Land Rover product so I'm a tad concerned about creating some sort of singularity if I buy another one.

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/29/20 12:15 p.m.

Regarding towing with Cayennes (or Touaregs or really anything with 6-8 gears) one 'quality of life' thing i think is nice that noone seems to bring up is that the difference between the top 2 gear ratios (maybe top 3 in an 8spd) is not that large. That's nice because if you think back to when everyone was towing with 4spd autos, the reason so many people burned up their 4th gears (other than them being mechanically crappy) is because 3 and 4 were pretty far apart, 3 was a little annoying to spend all your time in, and shifting back and forth between them often was unpleasant. They were in 4th because that's where it was less annoying to be.

On the other hand, if im in 6th in my Cayenne and it's a little too tall, i can switch to 5th and just go up a few hundred rpm and get a little more power but not have a big lurch, a whole bunch of extra engine noise, or lose 3mpg just like that. I may still have a ~0.7 ratio and a 1.0 ratio just like an old 4spd does, but i also have one or more options in between that make having to downshift out of top gear a little less annoying.  With the Cayenne specifically, it also basically never tries to make itself go below 2000 rpm, unlike a lot if not most other things with a v8. It doesn't constantly try to upshift itself into a no-torque situation.

Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter)
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) Reader
9/29/20 2:39 p.m.

I really would love to hear from people towing enclosed trailers with Cayennes/Touraegs and how well they honestly do. I love my Ram 1500 some of the time but ache for something smaller as a daily driver around DC. My L322 Range Rover pulled my 20' enclosed (aluminum, 6500 lbs ish) just fine but the suspension was too soft for stability in crosswinds. I keep seeing Cayennes as a supposedly viable option but haven't heard much from first-person experience. Just a side request to this whole thread, I guess.

John Welsh (Moderate Supporter)
John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) Mod Squad
9/29/20 6:07 p.m.
nutherjrfan said:

In reply to bearmtnmartin :

Saw this one earlier today on CL.

I think Tim is in the mid Atlantic region.

LR3.

I don't want to just take a cheap shot and question the reliability and durability of Range Rovers.  The fact is, I have never owned one and no personal experience.  What does jump out at me from the ad above is the seller claims to have spent $7.7k in just the past year on a vehicle he is trying to sell now for just $6.5k.  

So, is this a vehicle to avoided or is this the kind of OCD seller you want to buy from???  A little crazy or a little crazy? 

 

From the ad's pictures, do you think the seller has upgrade to the white Denali or the grey Ram Crew Cab?  

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
9/29/20 7:49 p.m.

In reply to Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) :

I echo your remarks.. I like the size of these things..

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
9/29/20 7:55 p.m.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/ctd/d/duluth-used-2012-volkswagen-touareg-tdi/7196774266.html

something like that may be a good trial if it truly is a buy back with 4 years worth of warranty....  

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/29/20 8:07 p.m.

My LR3 has been very good and there are plenty of stories of them going hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles. But they are a high end vehicle which means lots of bells and whistles and lots to go wrong. And if you can't diagnose and fix it yourself then you are in for a world of financial hurt. I bought mine at 140,000 km and it has had 12 owners before me. I am sure every second owner was a dealer or leasing company, but that still leaves six people who got fed up with repair bills. When I got it for nearly nothing the dash was lit up like a Christmas tree and the dealer just wanted it off his lot. It took me a weekend in the shop and about $300 in parts to sort it out. 120,000 km later I have only done lower front control arm bushings, a rebuilt air compressor and a new used stereo amplifier. I think that's pretty good for a 14 year old British SUV.

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/29/20 10:34 p.m.

 I keep seeing Cayennes as a supposedly viable option but haven't heard much from first-person experience. Just a side request to this whole thread, I guess.

Well, i'll never tow an enclosed car trailer unless it's someone elses, but i am fixing up a 23ft travel trailer and when i pull that i will report back.  

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/1/20 7:00 a.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin :

We do have a P38 Range Rover so I'm somewhat familiar with their demands. That said, I usually outsource the wrenching on DDs and tow vehicles so I can concentrate on working on the fun vehicles. I know first hand what that does to Land Rover maintenance bills .

This thread gives me both good and bad ideas. It's not decision time yet as the shop is still trying to diagnose the current tow pig,

shelbyz
shelbyz Reader
10/1/20 11:40 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:

Escalade or Yukon Denali with non afm 6.2.  2008-2010.  Total tanks. 400hp 400lb ft torque. 

 

This. However, you're a year off for avoiding AFM. 2010 was the first year where AFM was both installed and "active" on the 6.2. To avoid "active" AFM, you're looking for 07-09. If you're looking to avoid it completely, you're looking for 08-09.

2007 6.2's had the AFM hardware installed in the engine, but the system isn't used at all in the vehicles tuning. For 2008, the 6.2 had no AFM hardware, and obviously no AFM. 2009 was the same as 2008 except they added the flex fuel capability. For 2010 the AFM hardware was back in the 6.2 and this time it was actually "active".

The only reason I remember all this is because I was specifically looking for a non-AFM 6.2 GM SUV for my fiance a year ago. We ended up getting a standard length 2008 Escalade and love it, but I don't have any experience towing with it (yet).

From an SUV standpoint the AFM-less 6.2 can also be found in: 

-08-09 Hummer H2 indecision

-For only 2008 and 2009, it was an option (not standard) on the top of the line Tahoe (only, not available on Suburban) LTZ. However, for 2008 it was only available with RWD. They expanded the option to 4x4 (NOT AWD. See below) for 2009, before dropping the 6.2 from the Tahoe completely for 2010.

In comparison to the Escalade and Denali, the non-AFM 6.2 Tahoe is unique in that it has selectable 4x4 as opposed to the full time AWD in the other two. That said, IIRC GM only built something like 6XX such equipped Tahoes in 2009 and they are absolute hen's teeth on the used market. I just did a quick "any distance" search on AutoTrader and came up with 2...

IIRC, the factory trailer brake controller was optional on the Tahoe and Denali, but not available on the Escalade.

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
10/1/20 1:02 p.m.

My friend has a '13 Cayenne diesel that now has 150k miles on it.  He hasn't had any real trouble with it and regularly used it to tow a 24' enclosed trailer with a 3500lb+ car in it.  Said he got 17-18mpg while towing and it did fine.

I towed my M3 and featherlite trailer with my 06 Cayenne Turbo S and other than getting absolutely abysmal gas mileage it towed like a dream.  I actually haven't towed with the Cayenne diesel because I sold my trailer and my wife grabbed the Cayenne from me.  I expect it'd tow just as well as my old Turbo tho, only get at least twice the gas mileage doing it.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/1/20 1:31 p.m.

In reply to shelbyz :

yes

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