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eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/13/20 9:14 a.m.
MrChaos said:

at this point for the same money I would get the 2nd gen fit, mostly because I can actually find those in manual around.

Having owned a second gen fit and driven a Mazda2, I’d give the Fit the win easily, just due to practicality and extra power, but the 2 is still more fun to drive.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
10/13/20 9:18 a.m.

This thing rallycrosses around the mid atlantic, seems to do pretty well:

paul_s0
paul_s0 Reader
10/13/20 11:15 a.m.

I must admit I enjoyed mine, even if it was flat out everywhere.  Driving it into the highlands of Peru over 13,000 fasl was an exercise in maintaining momentum!  Used to get over 40 mpg on a run but down to around 27mpg (UK) around town in Lima.  Had it from new in 2013, threw a set of camber bolts on it and that was it, sold it 3 years later as the family grew.    I still consider getting another, just a bit difficult with a family of 4 plus dog.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
10/13/20 9:58 p.m.

Curios, if anyone knows: just how similar are the Fiesta and 2 chassis?

Are we talking the same but with different spring rates, accounting for the difference in height?

Also, how similar is 1.6 in the Ford to the Mazda 1.5?

I really want a 2, but if I can get the Fiesta for the same price or less, I may be tempted. I see more Fiestas for sale...

I like the Fit, but couldn't stand the a-pillars both for the reflection on the windscreen but also for the way they obstruct vision. I think I read some issues with oil consumption as well.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/13/20 10:16 p.m.

In reply to CyberEric :

The base suspension is identical. Main differences are the front lower spring seat is wound differently so if you use Fiesta struts use Fiesta springs. Mazda struts use Mazda springs. You CAN intermix, it just doesn't sit quite right so don't be surprised if you get a noise.

I run OE Fiesta ST lower control arms on both 2s... The bushings are stiffer and the front bushing had a 12mm hole vs 10mm for base model Fiesta/2 so that means you can pull it outwards when torquing to get another 0.2osh deg negative camber. Torque the hell out of it to be sure it doesn't slip. Never been an issue for me even on track.

All rear stuff interchanges no problem.

Rear beam is stiffer and LESS camber for an ST. I think 2-base Fiesta are essentially identical. 

I'm sure there's a minor difference in spring rates but that's not a big deal.

The 1.5 and 1.6 are not related at all. 

Bolt pattern on the Fords are stupid 4x108. 

Fiestas are somewhere around 300lbs heavier if memory serves correct, ST about +400lbs. 

 

Front brake calipers DO interchange, requires a very slight bend in the brake line to clear a "block" cast into the caliper, but caliper cost is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper for the Ford equivalent.  Brake *hoses* do NOT interchange.

This is Blueboy - my soon-to-be wife's Mazda2... It's on Fiesta ST H&R lowering springs, Koni Sports, and has ST LCAs.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
10/14/20 7:40 a.m.

In reply to flatlander937 :

Do you know if the Mazda2 hubs would work on a Fiesta? I own a dozen sets of 4x100 wheels and the Fiesta ST is one of the few cars I'd consider to replace my MINI CooperS, except for the 4x108 issue. 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
10/14/20 8:03 a.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to flatlander937 :

Do you know if the Mazda2 hubs would work on a Fiesta? I own a dozen sets of 4x100 wheels and the Fiesta ST is one of the few cars I'd consider to replace my MINI CooperS, except for the 4x108 issue. 

I believe Mazda2s have rear drum brakes, while Fiestas (or at least FiSTs) have disks. I read about this on fiestastforum in the past and searched again just now to confirm my recollection. 

There's this: https://www.alexthemachinist.com/collections/2013-2017-fiesta/products/4x108-to-4x100-wheel-pattern-re-drilling-jig The guy who sells them is willing to perform the labor for you if you send him your hubs.

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/14/20 8:05 a.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to flatlander937 :

Do you know if the Mazda2 hubs would work on a Fiesta? I own a dozen sets of 4x100 wheels and the Fiesta ST is one of the few cars I'd consider to replace my MINI CooperS, except for the 4x108 issue. 

It should be easy since B spec allows you to do it to the fiestas to convert them ot 4x100 using mazda hubs. I think you need to keep the ST rear beam as the mounts are slightly different apparently. you would need at least the rotors off the 2 as well. 

there is also this for the drum issue http://goldcoastautomotive.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=gold-coast-automotive&item=78319

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
10/14/20 8:26 a.m.

I've thought about it, but by the time you buy the drill guide or get everything redrilled and do whatever you have to do to the rear, you could have bought at least one new set of the right wheels, or potentially several used sets, for the same cost and a lot less effort. And then you don't have to re drill every time you put new rotors on (which isn't super often...but still).

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
10/14/20 8:57 a.m.

In reply to Snrub :

That's useful, especially since I have a 108-to-100 jig already.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
10/14/20 9:05 a.m.

In reply to MrChaos :

I'll bet B-SpecFiestas have drum brakes and the Mazda hub just bolts to the Ford axle. Doing it to a Fiesta ST starts getting the cost up to the point that dps214 makes about just buying new wheels. If all I had to do was buy hubs and rotors to change to 4x100 I'd do that, but any other added cost just means new wheels, and none of my current inventory is 17" wheels anyway, all 15s and 16s.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/14/20 9:12 a.m.

The base model fiestas have drum brakes. The Fiesta ST has a completely different front and rear hub bearing if memory serves correct. It actually uses the same bearing front and rear I believe.

 

If you wanted to convert a base Fiesta to 4x100, yes all you would need are the Mazda 2 hubs and then off the shelf Mazda rotors and drums will fit just fine. The ST will be a bit more of a challenge.

 

For what it's worth I don't think that any kind of drum to disc conversion in the rear is worthwhile... Considering I have 170,000 mi on my stock rear shoes and drums with zero problems and they could probably go 170,000 more. At some point I do want to play around with different compounds, so I may send a set of shoes to G Loc to be made. Porterfield has the R4-S available at $100 per shoe set, but I've heard mixed reviews from everybody who has had them in other applications for drums. I do not know if anybody who has used them on a Mazda 2 or Fiesta however. Everybody who runs B Spec just use the OEM shoes FWIW.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
10/14/20 9:18 a.m.

In reply to flatlander937 :

I used to race an ITB Volkswagen GTI. I ran Hawk front pads and a set of Autozone whatevers on the rear. New front Hawks routinely, but only had to change the rears after the 4th season and only because I dropped a pad and it broke on the concrete floor. Rear discs aren't a necessity on FWD cars.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/14/20 9:18 a.m.

Also for anybody interested in possibly trying to build a big brake kit, some options include several Mini Cooper rotors in 276 and 280mm. Also some newer model Kia Rio SX rotors measure 280 mm, and I actually bought a ND Miata front rotor which also measures 278(like a FIST), It looks perfect on paper, but the issue is that the inside diameter of the hat itself is too small. You would need to grind a notable amount off of the hub bearing outer flange for clearance. Being front-wheel drive and carrying a lot more weight up there, I'm not too keen on doing this. However, this means that there may be a two-piece rotor available because I think there is a kit out there for the ND Miata for OEM rotors but lightweight calipers for autocross use.

All that being said, the easy button is www.ddmworks.com to get there big brake kit which cuts 16 lb of unsprung weight up front. I'd like to do this this winter.

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
10/14/20 10:18 a.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to MrChaos :

I'll bet B-SpecFiestas have drum brakes and the Mazda hub just bolts to the Ford axle. Doing it to a Fiesta ST starts getting the cost up to the point that dps214 makes about just buying new wheels. If all I had to do was buy hubs and rotors to change to 4x100 I'd do that, but any other added cost just means new wheels, and none of my current inventory is 17" wheels anyway, all 15s and 16s.

FWIW you really want 15s or 16s on the ST anyway, unless you enjoy feeling the paint lines on the road and being terrified of potholes. Plus it looks kinda silly especially with how tiny it makes the brakes look.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
10/14/20 10:32 a.m.

^ I'm very happy with the 16" OZ Ultraleggeras/Indy 500s on my FiST. Not as happy with the 15" winter setup, turn in is no where near as sharp, but that may just be the winter tires.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/14/20 7:42 p.m.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1446770945517471/

 

Looks like a reasonably priced low mileage example of the elusive 5spd Touring trim... But an internet friend went 10hrs out of his way to see it and it's clearly had crash damage, a fender has been replaced with a rusty one, has lots of stuff covered up and poor repairs not visible in the photos. The owner apparently got defensive when this was all pointed out.

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/14/20 8:01 p.m.

In reply to flatlander937 :

yea 2's are nearly impossible for me to find right now for reasonable money. Fiesta hatches are also equally hard to find. I can find tons of honda fits though

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
10/14/20 9:00 p.m.

Blueboy looks great! That color with those wheels is spot on.

Thanks for the info.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
10/14/20 9:05 p.m.
flatlander937 said:

went 10hrs out of his way to see it and it's clearly had crash damage, a fender has been replaced with a rusty one, has lots of stuff covered up and poor repairs not visible in the photos.

This is basically why I have given up on looking at cars :(  I used to enjoy shopping for them, recently I find it to be a giant waste of time.  The cars are *never* as represented, if they even exist at all.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
10/15/20 10:16 a.m.

Heh.  My 2 owning customer happened to bring his car in for service today.  The shifter has good feel, the brake feel is great, the clutch actuation is proper and not "random height engagement" (ahem Hyundai).  Very, very easy chassis to work on, it's like a simplified A2 Golf.

infernosg
infernosg New Reader
10/15/20 11:43 a.m.

I daily drove a '11 Touring 5-speed for four years back in 2011-2014. My daily commute was <20 miles all around town so I usually averaged in the 35 mi/gal range. All highway I could top 40 mi/gal if the speeds were reasonable. I found that over 65 mi/hr or so the fuel economy started to drop off again. I was a fun little car to drive around when it was just 2 or 3 of us. Great city car as well for weaving through traffic and dealing with small parking spaces in public garages. However, I will say the I absolutely hated driving it with any more than 2 adults in the car. It felt like full throttle was required just to keep up with surrounding traffic. Also, driving with the AC on was immensely annoying. Because of the low HP you could feel every time the compressor clutch engaged. It felt like driving two different cars with the AC on vs off. I never did work up the courage to track mine while I had it. Ended up selling it to CarMax right before kid #2 came along and we made the Flex the daily. I do miss the car sometimes. You really don't see them at all anymore.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/22/20 7:19 p.m.

 

So I found this 58k mile 2012 5spd Sport for sale locally for $5k... Unfortunately I don't need another 2 (right now...), But I let an internet friend know about it... Arranged for me to meet up with the seller, drive it, look it over... And it checked out good so he flew one way from Arkansas to drive it 1000mi back home over the next couple days.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
10/22/20 8:50 p.m.

Man, that is a DEAL with that many miles.

Is that you in the phone brokering deals?

I have a commute that sounds like I could get 40mpg on then. I drive at 65 or slower for 23 miles of highway.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
10/24/20 11:52 a.m.

In reply to CyberEric :

Nah that's the guy who bought it trying to get insurance sorted.

What's funny is I actually tried to email you about this car (via GRM messages) when I first saw it. GRM forum really needs it's own message system.

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