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Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
5/23/19 1:40 p.m.

Story by Tim Suddard • Photography by Travis Ingram

The Miata could use more power. It’s something that’s been said since the dawn of time–or at least since the car’s release some 30 years ago.

We said it, too, in fact, in one of this magazine’s earlie…

Read the rest of the story

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
5/23/19 4:04 p.m.

Just in time for me to get the town bike.

gardnpc
gardnpc New Reader
5/23/19 4:15 p.m.

This test just confirms what I think about my 95M.  Pure, analog driving fun that is bank vault reliable.  I have yet to boost it, but sometime soon, I hope.  

MGLexx
MGLexx New Reader
5/23/19 4:41 p.m.

The Mazdaspeed Miata, a factory Turbo car should have been included. With a thousand different parts than a non Turbo NB they are amazing substantial cars.

levireyes
levireyes New Reader
5/23/19 5:07 p.m.

Unsure which one is better in the long run, Turbo or Supercharger for the 2016+ ND?  

 

 

 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/23/19 5:15 p.m.

I own 25% of those cars. laugh

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/19 5:51 p.m.
levireyes said:

Unsure which one is better in the long run, Turbo or Supercharger for the 2016+ ND?  

Turbo in both the short and the long term. 

jonk67
jonk67 New Reader
5/23/19 6:10 p.m.

Too bad the NB example with the most HP wasn't better sorted and on much better tires. Curious to see where they would have ranked it if it were equal build quality of the others.

If you do a similar test again I might be interested in driving my NB2 w/FFS MP62 coldside up to CO.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/23/19 6:31 p.m.

I agree whole heartedly to this assessment. My NA is pretty close to the NA here only with a bit more boost. It's really easy to love and a lot of fun. The NC is very under-rated. I would build one of those again at some point. 

Rodan
Rodan HalfDork
5/23/19 6:32 p.m.
jonk67 said:

Too bad the NB example with the most HP wasn't better sorted and on much better tires. Curious to see where they would have ranked it if it were equal build quality of the others.

195 all seasons definitely aren't up to track driving on a turbo Miata...  

I would be very interested in hearing the lap times for all the cars, if they were timed.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/23/19 6:34 p.m.
bmw88rider said:

I agree whole heartedly to this assessment. My NA is pretty close to the NA here only with a bit more boost. It's really easy to love and a lot of fun. The NC is very under-rated. I would build one of those again at some point. 

Every time I'm in a NC I feel like it's a cousin to the other three. The NA, NB and ND are clearly siblings. That's not to say it's better or worse, just not quite the same DNA. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/19 6:46 p.m.

When Tim set this up, we thought we were doing a road test and not a track test. The owner of the NB gave me the choice of his road tires or track tires, and since his car is a year round daily driver the "road tires" really weren't much more than black and round all-seasons. Tim threw a bit of a curveball there by deciding to emphasise the track, and unfortunately it didn't do the NB any favors. It is interesting that Tim didn't consider the Yokohama S.drives - a 300TW best seller on Tire Rack - as "standard issue passenger car tires".

There were no lap times set or recorded. We've had every one of these cars on the track in the past, but this wasn't a performance test and the cars were very much not set up for maximum track speed. It was a driving impressions test. On the right tires, the NB and ND tested here would have a pretty good fight. 

Rodan
Rodan HalfDork
5/23/19 6:46 p.m.

Having owned NA, NB and NC, I really liked our NC.  It was the most usable as a 'real car' with the PRHT, and though it was bigger and heavier, the chassis is really good.  Aftermarket suspension and good rubber really woke it up.

Rodan
Rodan HalfDork
5/23/19 6:52 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I was mostly interested in the lap times from curiosity, having a bunch of data from GJMS on various tires in our NC and NA.

S.Drives are, IMHO, a pretty good street tire on a Miata, and capable of good grip, at least until they overheat.  They also tolerate rain and cold pretty well.  Not gonna hang with a 200TW tire, though.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/19 7:01 p.m.

Well, there's a reason we put them on all the FM cars as street tires! I consider them to be normal passenger car tires, but they are a step above minivan spec which is basically what the NB was wearing.

The ND would be good for around a 1:04 on RE71s, if memory serves. Looks like the NB is a 1:06 range car on the track rubber, which is, umm, I'm not sure. I suspect that with equivalent drivers it would claw back a second or two. The NA would be in the 1:06 range in that case I'll bet. I don't know if we ever timed that NC but it's a pretty typical spec.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) UltimaDork
5/23/19 7:10 p.m.

After owning several Miatai in various forms I’ve settled on an STR NC as the sweet spot between cost/performance/comfort/livability.  

I could spend more and go faster but this is a damned quick car and sooo much better day-to-day than the NA/NB platform.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/23/19 8:42 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Seth, I agree. I got a drive in a NB L33 miata and it felt so much different than Betty. They are a different DNA for sure.

te72
te72 Reader
5/23/19 11:51 p.m.

I wouldn't mind one of each. I've toyed with the idea of buying a handful of NA/NB, keeping them all similar spec, and inviting friends over a couple times a month to go for a spirited drive. Doubt I'd ever have enough funds to keep such a fleet together (nor the room, really), but it's a fun idea.

ShinnyGroove
ShinnyGroove New Reader
5/24/19 7:49 a.m.

Except for looks and a little bit of weight, the NA and NB are very similar in stock form.  Heck, at this point half the parts on my NA are from the NB.  With cars so heavily modified, it really is up to the person doing the modifications to determine the character of the car.  The subjective impressions of these cars has way more to do with the tires they were on and modifications that were done than with the inherent nature of an NA, NB, etc.  One could easily build an NB that handled exactly the same as the NA in this test.  The NC might be the exception, if only because it’s not being trashed compared to the NA/NB like is so often done.

jwagner
jwagner New Reader
5/24/19 10:29 a.m.

Interesting article, and an outlier with respect to the NC.  My $.02 since I've had the three first generations:  NC doesn't get the respect it should.  It's a much better road car - my NA starts to feel like a go kart on the freeway when I'm next to semis in traffic.  And while I keep seeing the NC referred to as Big and Heavy, it's really not all that different from the first two generations, at least a compared to a Real Car.

The early NC suspension was fine for grocery getting, but sucked on the track or cone dodging.  Fortunately that's relatively easy to fix and Mazda recognized that.  The MS-R package was a hoot to drive on the track and was the hot ticket in C stock in it's time.  Balanced and neutral, it damned near drove itself and kept me out of trouble.  Adding some power through simple bolt-ons and a tune resulted in a car that gave S2000s fits, and could pick off an occasional C5 with a non-expert driver.  I still miss mine and would probably be looking for another if I hadn't just put about $2K into the NA motor.  (and the NC was still faster...)

youcanrunnaked
youcanrunnaked New Reader
2/18/21 4:38 p.m.

With the ND2 finally getting a turbocharger set-up, it will be interesting to see where that car places in comparison to all other FI Miatas, including the ND1 -- both turbocharged and supercharged versions.  One thing not addressed here is the durability of the ND 6MT under boost.  In that regard, it will also be interesting to see if the 6MT in the ND2 shows greater longevity than the ND1, when each is given FI.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/18/21 4:56 p.m.

First I've heard that someone's cracked the ND2 ECU far enough to allow boost. Who is it?

youcanrunnaked
youcanrunnaked New Reader
2/19/21 1:00 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I should have noted "coming soon."  Via Avo Systems and Dynotronics, using Mazdaedit (see post #3):  

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=732977

Could be vaporware, but I doubt Joe would go out on a limb like that.

See also:  https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=732604&highlight=nd2

 

Meanwhile... What's your take on the stock 6MT and clutch, ND1 and ND2, being able to handle FI? 

 

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/19/21 1:14 p.m.

Boy, Fab9 isn't doing their research on how to avoid visits from the EPA. Disclaimers with a wink won't cut it. And I've dealt with Joe for years, let's hope he's got something that works. 

For the power levels that we're seeing with our legal solutions, the stock clutch is okay as long as it hasn't been R&R'd. The self-adjusting mechanism will not adjust more than once, and the torque capacity drops. Not a problem for naturally aspirated cars but we have seen them struggle under boost. So believe Mazda when they say the clutch should be replaced if removed.

The transmission - well, that's a hot button for a lot of people. Is it a guaranteed failure? No. Will it live longer with FI than without? That seems unlikely, but I haven't looked too closely into the actual causes of the failures. If it's high rpm, FI isn't a factor. If it's torque, FI may be. We've had very few reports of transmission failures from our FI customers, though. And we do offer a solution in the NC transmission retrofit kit.

Vajingo
Vajingo Reader
2/19/21 4:29 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

What is the nc2 transmission retrofit?

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