Miata (NB) suspension

Ok, so back ground - I have a MadaSPEED6 with some basic bolt ons (TP, CAI, RPM Springs, Hankook V12's) and am car taker of a bone stock AP2 S2000 for my father, it's mine in spirit.

My buddy has historically been a NON CAR GUY but after he dumped the guts and oil of his 03 civid DX upon the asphalt he suddenly got into it with a 00' Miata SE. Thus far he has been wise and just gotten it in good running order with cleaning and sorting out oddities, he did replace plugs and wires which helped start up and fixed a low rpm tip in hessitation.

The shocks on this car (72K miles) are dead.... soooo dead.... he (and I) would like to address this but I am a firm believer in doing it right the first time.

SO MANY OPTIONS IT HURTS MY HEAD... Spec miata - too hard for street use I am guessing $$$$ Use MSM - used but can be found cheap Coil overs - WIDE RANGE of options Springs/shocks - tons of options Shock on stock springs - is this half arsing it?

I guess I want to be able to point him in the right direction, we will probably autox next summer but more for our own fun and his education and development as a driver, this needs to be DD and GF friendly, but still fun worthy!

Is the MSM OEM suspension a good option? I have seen them used for like 300....

My current thought is to recommend he just get a good set of adjustable dampers on stock springs, and then fine tune with sways to keep it flat, perhaps adjustable sways?

Pretty much the only site I have been looking at for ideas and pricing is "gomiata" so if you have recommendations please please please let me know.

After he did his plugs/wires he was so happy/proud I think the bug has bit him hard, just wanna make sure he is spending wisely but with 2 kids i dont have the time to do through and learn a whole new car well enough to advise him, so I look to the brain trust...

Go to Flyin' Miata They are a magazine sponsor, and are even on this board. Get a set of V-Maxx Classic, V-Maxx XXtreme, or if he's rolling in cash, AFCO's. Or, a set of Koni's on the stock springs. Adjustable, and you can add Ground Control coilovers later.

I'd imagine one of the Flyin' Miata setup would be perfect for him. They have many to choose from.

Spec Miata suspension isn't that expensive, but the consensus seems to be that it's too harsh for road use. I've had (used) MSM suspension on my NA, that was fine on the road but it was getting a bit marginal for track use (had somewhere around 30k-ish miles on it if the PO was to be believed).

Most of the cheap coilovers seem to be designed for the stance crowd so if it is not your buddy's goal to drag the frame rails on the ground at every given opportunity, I'd give those a miss. Please note I don't lump the FM VMaxxs in with the normal cheap coilovers like Racelands - the VMaxxes work pretty well (I use them on my NA, which does see a decent amount of track use), but they're the exception among the cheaper parts.

For pure street use, I'd throw some good shocks on the car (Bilsteins or yellow Konis, depends if you want adjustable or not) that are designed to work with stock or mildly uprated springs. Once those are on the car, determine if it still needs uprated sways or not.

He's not a car guy. Whey ruin it for him by throwing on a suspension that is too stiff, too low etc?

I'd say just replace the shocks with NEW shocks (Bilstein HD or Koni), maybe get some sway bars and see if that hooks him. If it does, THEN do a coilover setup or lowering springs.

In either case, Flyin Miata has you covered.

Is it really an '00 SE? (Burghundy, parchment top/interior). If that's the case, then it should come from the factory with Bilsteins, which in theory should still be fine at 72k.

it is purple and tan yes, but ti does not look like bilsteins to me just no name black shocks IIRC

amg_rx7 wrote: He's not a car guy. Whey ruin it for him by throwing on a suspension that is too stiff, too low etc? I'd say just replace the shocks with NEW shocks (Bilstein HD or Koni), maybe get some sway bars and see if that hooks him. If it does, THEN do a coilover setup or lowering springs.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Replace just the shocks now. If you later decide to up the spring rates, either of those will allow it.

(Not only is the SM suspension waaaaay too harsh for the street, but it is pretty well recognized as being oversprung for its intended purposes. 700# up front is complete overkill. On the spec shocks, a car will handle better with lower spring rate.)

So should i just suggest a set of illuminas? koni yellows? tokico blues? I would imagine a step up from stock would be good yes??

The Tokico blues are pretty much universally reviled. Either of the other two would be fine.

I had the KYB AGXs on my 91 w/ NB suspension and I liked them fine. Sway bars won't affect ride quality so that's a goo place to start if he decides he wants to modify his car further. There's no reason to not do upgrades in stages with someone who's new to the hobby. It's VERY easy to swap suspension on a miata and it's a good learning experience to take your car apart a few times.

Beer Baron wrote:

amg_rx7 wrote: He's not a car guy. Whey ruin it for him by throwing on a suspension that is too stiff, too low etc? I'd say just replace the shocks with NEW shocks (Bilstein HD or Koni), maybe get some sway bars and see if that hooks him. If it does, THEN do a coilover setup or lowering springs.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Replace just the shocks now. If you later decide to up the spring rates, either of those will allow it. (Not only is the SM suspension waaaaay too harsh for the street, but it is pretty well recognized as being oversprung for its intended purposes. 700# up front is complete overkill. On the spec shocks, a car will handle better with lower spring rate.)

Interesting.......many Miata guys are now running 700/400 or 800/500.

I'll hopefully get to test my new 800/500 setup in a few weeks.

Just put new NB billies in it with foam bump stops of some sort. That should last another 100k miles. You dont want to put yellows in it, they ride wicked harsh. But if it is a 2000 SE with billies already check to make sure the rear bump stops still exist and replace if they have turned into dust.

He's probably not going to want to drop $2000 on a suspension that rides better than stock I'm guessing.

There are a few guys in the Miata world running massive spring rates. Not "many", but they do tend to be quite vocal about their choices so you can get the impression there are a lot more. Heck, I've got 750s on the front of my car. But I also have a $2000 suspension and approximately four times as much horsepower than was originally in the car.

Bigben, give us a call at Flyin' Miata. I can help out.

z31maniac wrote: Interesting.......many Miata guys are now running 700/400 or 800/500.

The problem is not that 700# is inherently wrong for a Miata. The biggest problem is that 700/325 is the wrong balance. I have also heard that 700# is really more than the Bilstein HD was meant to dampen. Either need a beefier shock, or a lighter spring.

Yeah, Spec Miatas are underdamped. The fast guys are running revalved shocks.

Beer Baron wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Interesting.......many Miata guys are now running 700/400 or 800/500.

The problem is not that 700# is inherently wrong for a Miata. The biggest problem is that 700/325 is the wrong balance. I have also heard that 700# is really more than the Bilstein HD was meant to dampen. Either need a beefier shock, or a lighter spring.

Very true, 700/400 with an RB race bar and no rear bar is a great auto-x balance for put the 14mm MSM rear bar on for a track car. 700/400 on baller shocks will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs on sub $400/corner shocks.

Beer Baron wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Interesting.......many Miata guys are now running 700/400 or 800/500.

The problem is not that 700# is inherently wrong for a Miata. The biggest problem is that 700/325 is the wrong balance. I have also heard that 700# is really more than the Bilstein HD was meant to dampen. Either need a beefier shock, or a lighter spring.

Ahh, you meant oversprung for the given shocks. Fair point.

Leafy wrote: 700/400 on baller shocks will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs on sub $400/corner shocks.

Erm... I'm gonna respectfully disagree there. No matter how well damped, over 500# is going to be too hard for regular DD duty. Good shocks go for <$200/corner. $400/corner will get you a nice, complete suspension package with coilovers, mounts, sways, and bushings.

Beer Baron wrote:

Leafy wrote: 700/400 on baller shocks will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs on sub $400/corner shocks.

Erm... I'm gonna respectfully disagree there. No matter how well damped, over 500# is going to be too hard for regular DD duty. Good shocks go for <$200/corner. $400/corner will get you a nice, complete suspension package with coilovers, mounts, sways, and bushings.

You have never ridden on baller suspension. Something like xidas or penskes with high rates will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs with your choice of off the shelf shocks. Yes its firm, but its not harsh and you dont feel most surface imperfections in the painful way. Yes you know you drove over a seam in the pavement, but you arent wondering if you'll have blood in your urine like you would with the stock suspension or any sub $2000 coilover system.

Leafy wrote: You have never ridden on baller suspension. Something like xidas or penskes with high rates will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs with your choice of off the shelf shocks. Yes its firm, but its not harsh and you dont feel most surface imperfections in the painful way. Yes you know you drove over a seam in the pavement, but you arent wondering if you'll have blood in your urine like you would with the stock suspension or any sub $2000 coilover system.

Sub $2000 coilover system? Are we talking about NA/NB Miatas still? In order to spend over $2000 on coilovers for a Miata, you are looking at a custom Afco or Ohlins system.

I'm not talking about the shocks you would get from a regular auto parts store. I am talking Koni Yellows, Billstein HD, or Tokico Illuminas. Any of those will be <$200/corner and quite comfortable on stock springs, provided you are not running into the rear stops on an NA.

The OP was asking about suspension for a guy who wants a regular DD car. Maybe he will convince the guy to do auto-x some day. For a person like that, I would not recommend much more than the spring rates on the standard FM suspension package. Really, all this guy needs are good shocks.

Beer Baron wrote:

Leafy wrote: You have never ridden on baller suspension. Something like xidas or penskes with high rates will be more comfortable on the street than stock springs with your choice of off the shelf shocks. Yes its firm, but its not harsh and you dont feel most surface imperfections in the painful way. Yes you know you drove over a seam in the pavement, but you arent wondering if you'll have blood in your urine like you would with the stock suspension or any sub $2000 coilover system.

Sub $2000 coilover system? Are we talking about NA/NB Miatas still? In order to spend over $2000 on coilovers for a Miata, you are looking at a custom Afco or Ohlins system. I'm not talking about the shocks you would get from a regular auto parts store. I am talking Koni Yellows, Billstein HD, or Tokico Illuminas. Any of those will be <$200/corner and quite comfortable on stock springs, provided you are not running into the rear stops on an NA.

Or 949 xidas or penskes. But any off the shelf shock on a miata wont be as comfortable, especially yellows, F those things for driving on the street.

This is why I said, check and see if it has billies, then check the rear bump stops. If it has billies they're not blown out yet but the stock NB bump stop in the rear probably doesnt exist any more.

Why are bump stops such a huge deal with the NB?!?!? will he really end up riding on them that much?!?!? It seems like there are almost as many bump stop options as springs and shocks...

bigbens6 wrote: Why are bump stops such a huge deal with the NB?!?!? will he really end up riding on them that much?!?!? It seems like there are almost as many bump stop options as springs and shocks...

Even with the 850/500 rates in my racecar I still utilize the bump stops. Not nearly as often as a car with stock springs, but I do still use them.

I have a local friend with 700/400 Xidas on his NB. It's more comfortable than my stock MSM suspension.