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mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/13/12 11:23 a.m.

that's still 11 SUVesque vehicles... sure nissan is not GM in drag?

belteshazzar
belteshazzar UltraDork
8/13/12 11:32 a.m.

holy crap that X-trail thing was available as a common rail diesel.

Tyler H
Tyler H GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/13/12 11:41 a.m.
irish44j wrote: I guess my real question is that if Nissan sees fit to make an ultra-niche vehicle like the Murano Vert, why would they not continue with one truck-based medium SUV - particuarly since they can just base it on a medium pickup chassis (as the Armada uses the Titan).

I think 2013 is the last year for the Frontier, with no planned replacement. Nissan without a 'mini truck.'

Edit: The 2013 is going to be 'all-new' and they're moving production from Smyrna to Canton.

rjracin240
rjracin240 New Reader
8/13/12 11:46 a.m.

Right there with you wondering what the hell is wrong with Nissan, With the reintro of the Datsun nameplate and the intro of the Subaru/Scion BRZ pair....would be a awesome oppurtunity to enter the playing field with a retro rear wheel drive 510. Amazed each time I bring out my 510 and how many people engage in conversation about the car. Surprised by how many kid's know what a 510 is, one 20 something actually thanked me for bringing out the car as he was a big fan of the 510, but thought he never get the oppurtunity to see one. Then again guess Nissan figures he would be better off driving something as exciting as a Versa or one of their 11-13 variations of a crossover.

Just my .02 cents worth

rjracin240
rjracin240 New Reader
8/13/12 11:46 a.m.

Right there with you wondering what the hell is wrong with Nissan, With the reintro of the Datsun nameplate and the intro of the Subaru/Scion BRZ pair....would be a awesome oppurtunity to enter the playing field with a retro rear wheel drive 510. Amazed each time I bring out my 510 and how many people engage in conversation about the car. Surprised by how many kid's know what a 510 is, one 20 something actually thanked me for bringing out the car as he was a big fan of the 510, but thought he never get the oppurtunity to see one. Then again guess Nissan figures he would be better off driving something as exciting as a Versa or one of their 11-13 variations of a crossover.

Just my .02 cents worth

akamcfly
akamcfly HalfDork
8/13/12 12:37 p.m.
irish44j wrote: That's an X-Trail, right? I saw those all over the place in Europe and the Caribbean (especially the latter). You must live overseas :)

Canada actually. We got them here too. 2005 and 2006.

akamcfly
akamcfly HalfDork
8/13/12 12:39 p.m.
belteshazzar wrote: holy crap that X-trail thing was available as a common rail diesel.

In Canada, we only got the 2.5L gas.

irish44j
irish44j SuperDork
8/13/12 12:53 p.m.
Vigo wrote: X-trail. I see them pretty frequently down here due to proximity to the mexican border. I think they are pretty cool. There's quite a few things i see down here that werent sold here that appeal to me to some varying degree.

Here's one in Germany at a rest stop on the Autobahn between Munich and Berlin. He was trucking at about 120(mph) when I caught back up to him.

Of course, in Germany something like this is considered a "big gas-guzzling giant SUV" lol...

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter UltraDork
8/13/12 1:02 p.m.
irish44j wrote: Of course, in Germany something like this is considered a "big gas-guzzling giant SUV" lol...

In the land of the G-wagen, Cayenne, and X3/5/6, that's a big SUV?

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltraDork
8/13/12 1:25 p.m.

I think we all want Nissan still be the cool supplier of 510's, 240Z's, 280Z's, Sentra SE-r (first one), and every other cool car they came out with. I think the Nissan future wants to be the Buick's of the world along with everything having a CVT.

A new 510? They quickly want you in an Altima CVT Buick-mobile that can be sold in quantity to make a lot of cash. My Accord has the same boring problem to it................

How cool would a 2013 Nissan 510 SE-R be?

irish44j
irish44j SuperDork
8/13/12 2:11 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
irish44j wrote: Of course, in Germany something like this is considered a "big gas-guzzling giant SUV" lol...
In the land of the G-wagen, Cayenne, and X3/5/6, that's a big SUV?

I was there for a week, and those three were pretty rare to see. On my Munich to Berlin trek (in an Audi A4 diesel 6MT rental wagon), 99% of the private vehicles I saw on the Autobahn (and other roads) were cars - though there were a LOT of "sportwagon" type cars. Even the people who were clearly on long-haul vacations were mostly in wagons, usually with roof boxes and/or cargo trailers.

Lots of Opel wagons

A lot of these Fords (Mondeo?), which were kind of like a mini-minivan/big wagon

Pretty common also were the Honda TSX wagons

These toyota wagons were all over the place..

I did see the occasional lux-SUV, and they were almost always high-end models with bling wheels and clearly "rich people." And they were always hauling serious ass

In Berlin itself there was a slightly higher percentage of SUVs (since there's a lot of money in downtown Berlin.....plenty of Ferraris and Porsches around), but outside the downtown area,

Hell, even the rental lot at the airport was loaded mostly with sportwagons (almost all of them diesel, almost all of them manual transmission)

corytate
corytate Dork
8/13/12 2:43 p.m.
Max_Archer wrote:
irish44j wrote:
novaderrik wrote: they know that most people that buy one will probably be using it to do some "pathfinding" in and around the parking lots of suburban strip malls and not climbing over rocks, so they design it accordingly. they just use the name to give the people that buy their tall station wagon a feeling that they are driving something that isn't just a tall station wagon.
Don't they already have the Murano, Juke, Rogue, Quest, and a half dozen Infiniti crossovers for that? I'm guessing it's about CAFE as much as anything, but it sure seems a tragedy in my view.
Not to mention they overlap and are basically identical. I thought the Rogue was a small crossover, but I had to shoot one a while back and it took 20 minutes of crawling around the thing before I looked at the badge and noticed that it wasn't a Murano.

I work on these stupid things every day and it still takes some effort to separate the rogue from the murano. Takes a LOT more effort to separate the altima and the maxima now, I basically just go by hood prop or hood struts to make the decision lol. (recent max's don't have hood props)
Same deal with the pre 12 and 13 versa sedans and the new body sentras.
It disgusts me more every day how cars keep getting bigger and bigger (altima right now is about 1.5 times as big as a maxima 10 years ago) and SUV's keep getting lamer.

They still have the frontier and titan though. Now they need a SC frontier with the vq40!

integraguy
integraguy UltraDork
8/13/12 2:46 p.m.

It could be worse. In some markets, Nissan has REPLACED sedans with these CUVs and SUVs. North America is pretty much THE market for the Altima and Maxima. In many markets, Nissan sells versions of their Infiniti models as Nissans. And of course, only North America gets the Titan.

i imagine another reason why the Xterra is "disappearing" is that it's market share was already shrinking. So it's not all CAFE....just 99.9%

Iusedtobefast
Iusedtobefast New Reader
8/13/12 2:47 p.m.

My wife LOVES her 2008 Pathfinder and says she will not buy another

The0retical
The0retical Reader
8/13/12 3:09 p.m.

I'm curious to see the article regarding the Xterra being discontinued because I would be horribly disappointed. All the articles I've found have been predicting its demise since about 2009 when it got its last refresh.

The Pathfinder going softroader is disappointing but it doesn't affect me too much since I personally liked the XTerra a lot better (I own a 2006). It's also the last or one of the last body on frame SUVs out there.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/12/nissan-xterra-to-continue-as-traditional-suv/

irish44j
irish44j SuperDork
8/13/12 3:40 p.m.

i was just going by what several buddies who wheel their XTerras said. They were lamenting the model's demise. But looks like Nissan changed their minds or whatever.

Merc
Merc Reader
8/13/12 4:52 p.m.

I don't see much problem with them switching it back to a unibody frame. Remember the Cherokee was unibody and so is the current new Grand Cherokee. Those do quite well in most situations that don't require climbing large boulders. It seems like people spend 90% of the time on roads anyways. All that means is towing capacity may not be as great and you can't shoot those neat pics of your pathy sitting on a rock that you past by on a trail. But I know how you feel about Nissan blanding up their brand. They may have some exciting technology but it doesn't mean their cars are getting anymore exciting.

Twin_Cam
Twin_Cam UltraDork
8/13/12 5:28 p.m.

I hate the term crossover. Here's what the vehicle actually is:

Unibody= station wagon (examples: the new Pathfinder, the Cadillac SRX, the Toyota Highlander, etc) Body on frame= SUV (Trailblazer, Tahoe, Excursion, etc)

Both types are usually pointless, as station wagons function better than either of these. And don't give me that towing crap, your grandfather's old Roadmaster or Ford wagon could tow the hell out of the family camper. Anything more, ok yea you should have a truck but that thing better be diesel and it better have a manual trans and it better not have leather and sat nav.

Strizzo
Strizzo UberDork
8/13/12 6:07 p.m.

The xterra death rumor has been around almost since they redesigned the 2009 model. It was supposed to be dead after 2010, then after 2011, and now there have been rumors about a 2013 or 2014 refresh again. I really like my 2010 Off Road, for the record. I'll also clear up some misconceptions, the Titan, armada(now dead), pathfinder, frontier and xterra all share a platform. The Titan front suspension and front axle are even a common upgrade for the xterra and frontier to widen the front track and give more travel.

Part of what kept the xterra alive was a deal for the new Titan to be a rebadged ram truck, which went away when fiat bought Chrysler a few years ago. When that happened, Nissan had to scramble to start a redesign of the current titan, creating a stay of execution for the other platform mates.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/14/12 11:01 a.m.

sadly.. the problem facing us is that people LIKE SUVs. They want to sit up tall and feel safe. The more SUVs on the road, the more people will buy them as cars no longer feel "safe" when everything around you is twice as high as you are.

I am made aware of this fact everyday as it is rare for me to be able to drive looking through the car in front so I can anticipate what is going on... I find myself staring at the backs of SUVs and waiting for taillights... not the safest way to drive.

I would like to go back in time to meet the marketing team that decided that we would like SUVs and beat (more) senseless

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
8/14/12 11:15 a.m.

The birth of the modern SUV: It was all due to EPA fuel economy standards and crash test standards that applied to passanger cars but did not apply the same way to trucks. As such, passenger seats were applied to trucks to avoid the standards.
The forefront leader of the modern SUV was the introduction of the small Jeep Cherokee XJ which stayed in production for 17 years and in that time the company had 3 different owners.

Duke
Duke PowerDork
8/14/12 11:35 a.m.
SilverFleet wrote: How does this company remain profitable?

By aiming their products squarely at the idiot masses who regularly buy new cars, and ignoring the disgruntled minority who rarely buy new cars anyway.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, in all sincerity.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/14/12 11:38 a.m.
jrw1621 wrote: The birth of the modern SUV: It was all due to EPA fuel economy standards and crash test standards that applied to passanger cars but did not apply the same way to trucks. As such, passenger seats were applied to trucks to avoid the standards. The forefront leader of the modern SUV was the introduction of the small Jeep Cherokee XJ which stayed in production for 17 years and in that time the company had 3 different owners.

ah.. so SUVs are actually less safe than cars in an accident... lovely

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
8/14/12 11:58 a.m.

Early Minivans were less safe than similar cars too and these were squarely aimed at carrying people. As an example there were no side crash tests for Minivans and like Pickups, Minivans were not required to have 5 mph rear bumpers (heck, pick ups were not required at all to have a rear bumper.)

This '97 Rav 4 is an example of these relaxed "truck" standards. A bumper-less car like this would have not been allowed in '97.
Note: Rav4, the forefather of the Crossover or more car chassied SUV (but still classed as a truck.)

SilverFleet
SilverFleet Dork
8/14/12 12:02 p.m.
Duke wrote:
SilverFleet wrote: How does this company remain profitable?
By aiming their products squarely at the idiot masses who regularly buy new cars, and ignoring the disgruntled minority who rarely buy new cars anyway. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, in all sincerity.

I don't see how inter-corporate competition and product overlap/redundancy can possibly lead to profitability, but if people keep buying them, I guess they will keep building them.

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