Need 01-04 Civic SI Input..

Got a lead on an 02 Civic Si for pretty cheap. I'm looking for some feedback about them, pros/cons, gas mileage and what to look out for.

Do you mean the the 02-05 EP3?

If its the EP3, i have seen a stock class one smoke all of the sts spec civics at several autocrosses. The older ones are not daily driveable IMO cause they are too much of a theft target.

In reply to Travis_K:

It's an EP3.. The one I was looking at, the price advertised turned out to be the down payment ($2495 down, $8800 full price). Its a little out of my price range currently. I don't think i'd consider an older si since they are either really high mileage, beat to death, clapped out or way too expensive asking price.

01-05 Neon R/T. Same performance with a trunk. You could get one for the down payment on the Honda.

They need something big under them... bigger than the standard 205/50/15. I had decent success with 225/45/16s on mine back in 2004, but I bet something bigger in Star Specs would be better.

In ST trim, they use crash bolts to gain camber, and its not much if you have it lowered...maybe -2 at the most. The best bet is to find a setup that will also give it some caster. I believe the GC/Konis will. Also, I had great luck with the Hotchkis Autox roll bar. Its thick and light and I think 28 or 29mm. The front suspension is the weakest point on the car.

Sticking with the ST theme, the header and midpipe are both very restrictive. The stock muffler flows very well. Hondata has an ecu reflash that really wakes it up for $600, and helps you get the most out of an IHE.

The shifter takes some getting used to, and some people learn to love it like I did. Expect 24-28mpg, low 30s if you cruise alot. Its a really nice daily driver with a strong chassis. Decent low and mid-range torque for a civic, too. Very comfy.

GRM might have some archives of their ST build.

Oh, one thing to look out for is due to the shifter configuration, they got misshifted alot, especially going from 3-2 instead of 3-4. If you can run through the gears at high-revs first you'll know if its got problems.

Hondas hold their value, you can only "luck" in to a cheap one. Or it's a dog.

ep3's have the fake vtec, and you could probably find a similar year rsx-s for a similar price, and it wouldnt look like a minivan

The Honda Odyssey Si? Nifty car.

Roomate has one. Maybe he'll post up about it, i know he reads here on occasion.

His is an 03.

I've driven it a short distance when we went to go pick up my Celica from being aligned, so here's my driving impressions:

1) BIZARRE feeling clutch. You start to let it out, and right when the resistance starts to go away, and the pedal goes soft again, you figure that's where it engages, right? HAHAHAHA HONDA IS LAUGHING AT YOU. Nope, it's about another inch or two. Hard for me to drive smooth. But something i could learn. That being said, i would like more clutch pedal feel, but that's a complaint i've had with every honda i've ever driven.
2) The ergonomics work. I love them. Great seats, pedal placement is good. The shifter is strange at first, but i like it.
3) Torque: This kindof has it. It's no stump puller compared to my celica, but it's an entirely different animal than the EM1 Si. Far superior, in my opinion.
4) His has H&R lowering springs on stock struts, with 205/50/15 RS2s. It's amazing for what little is done to it. It still has a slightly funky understeer transitioning into a "snap" oversteer when REALLY pushed, but otherwise it's pretty nimble feeling and easy to drive.
5) The springs (2") drop gave it some negative camber, but it was possible to align it to HPF specs and preserve tire life.

For $8800? Despite all the positives..... i'd pass. If you have a burning need to get a Honda, then get it. But as pointed out, the RSX Type S can be found for that price, and it's superior on all counts except maybe interior room. If you REALLY want to get a performance deal on a late-ish model Japanese FWD rice rocket, then you want a 2000-2005 Celica GTS 6-speed. They're light, they're findable for $7k, the motor is badass as all hell, and they run circles around most of what was mentioned in this thread. 2500lbs for a loaded GTS with the 2zzge motor, it ain't slow.

probably my biggest dissappointment with the rsx-s while autocrossing was that it has 4-wheel (3 channel) abs. the rear wheels were both on the same abs channel, so when you lift a tire under braking/turn-in, the abs cuts the rear brakes and any trail braking you had going on quits, you start plowing, and sadness ensues.

Dropping it 2" will only hurt cornering. About a one inch drop is best unless you build an all out track car.

Not a performance car out of the box. Honda screwed the American market with a wimpier motor and wimpy suspension.

Making it a kick ass performer will take it out of most of the sanctioned categories.

A really fun track car. Not a national level autox car. Some guys are running 4, 5, 600hp. and are very stable in the corners and at 160 mph.

Needs to weigh 2400 lbs., not 2775. I'm at about 2550 and the difference is night and day already.

Needs bigger tires. The Kuhmo XS 225/50/16 are a blast and are comfy on the road.

Needs more power, K24 is my choice. Or K20 or combination of both. Plus a sixth gear.

Needs complete suspension redo.

Nice road car. I can put my 29er and another bike inside and a bunch of other stuff.

Gas mileage 20-40 mpg depending.

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/index.php

http://forums.clubep3.net/

http://www.k20a.org/forum/index.php

You can find one cheaper for sure, I paid something stupid like 7K for a 03 with 90K miles a few years back to use as a daily driver.

Parts are dirt cheap, the seats are great. DON'T LOWER THEM. that is if you are going to drive it daily. The paint on them is not great. The ergonomics are fine and the clutches just feel like they are super boosted for some reason.

Check Honda-Tech for deals.

I bought an end-of model year 2002 as a leftover. Paid like 13 something w/ .09% financing. I did:

Progress springs/Koni yellows/Civic Type R rear swaybar/Upper F and lower R braces,/some kind of 17" Rota wheels.

Good looking, nice handling useful, well made car. Except it began comsuming oil about when I bought it. Eventually I did the "Honda oil consumption test" repeatedly for the Lying shiny happy people who work for the service department of Ourisman Honda in Bethesda MD, where no one should ever spend a single dollar.

After demonstrating that the car was parked on level terrain, the dipstick would be examined by the service manager and myself and the results logged. 1000 miles later I'd bering it back and we'd repeat this. It was using 1qt/800 miles, which is bad enough to surpass Honda's standard that 1qt/1000 miles is somehow acceptable.

It needs to be shown 3 times consecutively to justify a tear down.

The third time I brought it in they checked it (1-1/2 quarts low in a bit over 1k miles) and said "we want to check it over - can you leave it an hour?" 2 hours later I took a cab home. 7 hours later they said I could pick it up. The service manager said:

"well, there's nothing wrong with it! nothing at all! - we topped it up w/ a HALF QUART it's fine now"

The objective being that I only had about 1500 miles remaining on the warranty, and the test (3x 1000 miles cycles) would now need to be repeated.

I tactfully expressed my assessment of the veracity of their results as well as an in depth analysis of their test methodology. It's possible I may have addressed their ancestry and/or suggested that they attempt certain sexual acts, some of which being biologically and anatomically improbable or impossible.

I took my test results to a rival dealer (cause anyone's favorite customer is someone elses disgruntled ex-customer) and told an old motorcycle racer associate there (a master Honda tech) my story. He got the service manager, related the short sanitized version and finished with " I think they glazed the rings when they drove it down 95 south to the dealership, and it needs a shortblock"

Service manager said "then order the man a shortblock".

2 weeks later I had a new shortblock, and for a case of Korean beer (Cass, IIRC) he'd also intstalled my new DC header and urethane engine mounts.

I broke it in for a couple K miles, then bought a used Jackson racing Eaton supercharger, an AEM cold water intake, and some expensive free flowing not terribly loud exhaust.

That car went like stink and was SO much fun to drive. I think it made pretty close to 200hp and 140 some ft/lb torque. It made that torque number from 1000 rpm 'til it rev limited, only varying by a few pounds. It was on stock injectors which were virtually at 100% cycle at WOT.

Then I had a big life changing event involving a skateboard crash, an anomoly on a CT scan, a trip to see a neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins, and being dubbed "The luckiest guy ever" -

And I decided I wanted to autocross and do track events in a junior supercar. I bought a nice e36 M3 which I have built into a fine AX and HPDE unit.

I sold most of the go fast stuff off the Si to the kids on ephatch.com, and sold the car on Craigslist.

I come out about dead even between the M3 and the Si - stuff sale.

I think you can buy a good one cheaper. Watch for oil consumption and kid ownership. The reason for most of the "2nd gear problems" the ep3 had was that it was manual only, subsequently being the first manual car for a lot of drivers with more enthusiasm than skill.

I drove a few of them, ended up buying a 2000 Civic SIR. I did all the research , they have AC issues, creaks from the steering and a few other issues that turned me away. Fun car to drive though.. Feel really under powered...even compared to my Lowly B16

In reply to AutoXR:

I might have the chance to pick up a very clean 02 for about 4 grand. It has a ton of miles, but the car is the original owner. I think the miles are about 160k. He sent me pictures and the car looks brand new. My b13 sentra se-r has such a stiff ride that I am thinking this would make a great DD.

Would you do it for this price?

Anyone?

Beat him down. These cars are the plague to the "tuner" crowd, and are a hard sell. Get it cheap then swap in a K24 and a 6 speed. Add a blower if you want streetable, reliable power.

Has anyone driven an EP3 back to back with an svt focus? On paper the cars sounds very much alike, 160-170hp, 3-dr hatch, handles great, lil slow in a straight line.

I went with the focus because I got a good deal on it but the civic intrigues me.

The focus handles much better than the civic and in general has a more sportier feel. The interior of the civic is superb- seats, steering wheel, and shifter are top notch.

I think an issue of SCC had back to back tests of the Si and SVT Focus in one of their annual "Best cars under $xxxxx" issues. They ran them once a year from the late '90s up until the end of the mag. They usually took all the available subcompacts through a series of roadtests and then came back with recommendations for making each just a bit better.

Today, tho, what the Civic would have over an equivalent SVT Focus is the availability of (cheaper, or slightly cheaper?) go-fast parts. Like others, I'd be more inclined to go with an RSX before an Si, but if the right Focus came along......?