New 1-ton diesel trucks

Our 2005 F-250 diesel blew a brake line last night on my way home from Lemons, which was no big deal to me, but to SWMBO it's a huge deal. I threw a vice grip on the rubber line and drove 140 miles home without using the brakes once thanks to engine braking.

HOWEVER - Last week her friend had a towing incident, which resulted in a dead horse. Please don't ask for details - it's a long story I don't like thinking about. The primary use of our truck is hauling, and most of the time it's our 28' gooseneck horse trailer full of hay burners worth more than the truck and trailer combined.

She says the old truck can stay, but she's not towing horses with it anymore. I say "fair nuff." It's a raw subject and I know better than to push on it.

I haven't looked at new trucks much beyond marveling at how quiet the new 6.7 Fords are, so I'm looking for some first hand experience with the new tide of compression ignition 1 ton trucks.

Our requirements are SRW, 8' bed and supercab (not a full crew cab). Basically a new 1-ton version of what we have.

Thoughts?

Prepare for sticker shock.

I'm spending money on keeping my 10 year old Chevy DM/HD for another 10 years based on a quick review of new truck prices. The good news is that people are spending ridiculous money on used diesels too so you can offset some by fixing the brakes and selling the old one.

I can seriously sell my 2500HD around here for what I paid for it 5 years and 80k miles ago. People are nucking futz.

With any truck, it's what bodystyle/setup you prefer.
I predict the following:
1) Chevy's ride nice, but not a "true" truck
2) Ford are the best built, but the interior/styling is "basic"
3) Dodge has the best motor, but the truck will fall apart around you

At least, that's what shakes out whenever this comes up.

I'd say, decide what features/look/ride you like and start haggling for the best deal. You're at the end of a model year, so you might be able to snag one at a good discount. I bought a new GMC a few months ago for 27% off sticker because of GM's discounts (GMC isn't selling as well as Chevy) and my wife's employee discount.

Good luck!!! And my sure SWMBO is there when you test drive them.

-Rob

If she liked the Ford otherwise, and you're in the market for a new one, I'd consider waiting for the "real" new one.

The 2016 F350 should bring an entirely new truck to the table with aluminum bodywork and be available in late '15.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/10/next-gen-ford-super-duty-receive-aluminum-bodies/

I was expecting you to say you were finally throwing in the towel on your 6.0. Glad to hear it's only a brake, though still surprised that failed on a truck less than 10 years old.

If you're buying now regardless, I don't think you can go wrong. All of the "new" stuff out in the last 5 years or so is almost ridiculously over-capable.

rob_lewis wrote: With any truck, it's what bodystyle/setup you prefer. I predict the following: 1) Chevy's ride nice, but not a "true" truck 2) Ford are the best built, but the interior/styling is "basic" 3) Dodge has the best motor, but the truck will fall apart around you At least, that's what shakes out whenever this comes up. I'd say, decide what features/look/ride you like and start haggling for the best deal. You're at the end of a model year, so you might be able to snag one at a good discount. I bought a new GMC a few months ago for 27% off sticker because of GM's discounts (GMC isn't selling as well as Chevy) and my wife's employee discount. Good luck!!! And my sure SWMBO is there when you test drive them. -Rob

I would agree with your assessment but I don't think people say the GMs aren't true trucks, there are too many pics of them doing real work to sell that one. They say they are a government owned socialist construct and therefore contrary to the 'murican redneck agenda. Then there is some Obama bashing, a pic of Calvin pissing on something followed by videos of fords pulling chevys and chevys pulling fords then the thread atrophies.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

rob_lewis wrote: With any truck, it's what bodystyle/setup you prefer. I predict the following: 1) Chevy's ride nice, but not a "true" truck 2) Ford are the best built, but the interior/styling is "basic" 3) Dodge has the best motor, but the truck will fall apart around you At least, that's what shakes out whenever this comes up. I'd say, decide what features/look/ride you like and start haggling for the best deal. You're at the end of a model year, so you might be able to snag one at a good discount. I bought a new GMC a few months ago for 27% off sticker because of GM's discounts (GMC isn't selling as well as Chevy) and my wife's employee discount. Good luck!!! And my sure SWMBO is there when you test drive them. -Rob

I would agree with your assessment but I don't think people say the GMs aren't true trucks, there are too many pics of them doing real work to sell that one. They say they are a government owned socialist construct and therefore contrary to the 'murican redneck agenda. Then there is some Obama bashing, a pic of Calvin pissing on something followed by videos of fords pulling chevys and chevys pulling fords then the thread atrophies.

I just base it on the old adage that the GM's don't have a solid front axle and IRS instead. Although, the new Fords and Dodges may have that now, too. (I don't follow truck specs all that much).

-Rob

I priced out a 3/4 ton SRW quad cab 4x4 diesel the other day and nearly fell out of my chair.

I'll drive this 7.3 PSD till it dies, and then probably go back to a 12V Cummins.

I really think it's hard to beat the duramax/Allison combo in the GM trucks. The integrated exhaust brake is a nice feature too. If you really want to get swanky spring for the Denali.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Prepare for sticker shock. I'm spending money on keeping my 10 year old Chevy DM/HD for another 10 years based on a quick review of new truck prices. The good news is that people are spending ridiculous money on used diesels too so you can offset some by fixing the brakes and selling the old one. I can seriously sell my 2500HD around here for what I paid for it 5 years and 80k miles ago. People are nucking futz.

Yea, sticker shock galore.....and you won't get much out of a 6.0 unless you have documentation for the head studs and egr delete.

Dad bought a new f350 with the 6.7L last year, thus far, it has impressed me greatly and had zero issues. The power it possesses is ridiculous though. I think he spent something like $45k on a xlt single cab longbed 4wd with the 6.7L

yamaha wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Prepare for sticker shock. I'm spending money on keeping my 10 year old Chevy DM/HD for another 10 years based on a quick review of new truck prices. The good news is that people are spending ridiculous money on used diesels too so you can offset some by fixing the brakes and selling the old one. I can seriously sell my 2500HD around here for what I paid for it 5 years and 80k miles ago. People are nucking futz.

Yea, sticker shock galore.....and you won't get much out of a 6.0 unless you have documentation for the head studs and egr delete. Dad bought a new f350 with the 6.7L last year, thus far, it has impressed me greatly and had zero issues. The power it possesses is ridiculous though. I think he spent something like $45k on a xlt single cab longbed 4wd with the 6.7L

Sticker shock is real now, though wit the 2016 super duties coming out you might be able to get a killer deal on a 6.7 in the old body-style if you can wait a bit. The neighbor spent something like 65K on his rolling showroom F350 somehow. Its nice but its not 65K nice. I will stick with my 15K year old superduty for a long time at those prices.

We don't go much on the creature comforts that drive up the prices really badly, so we're looking at prices around $50k rather than the loaded up leather-clad offices that most diesel trucks seem to have turned into.

She likes the "truckiness" of the current Ford, we tried a Chevy before we bought it and she said it rode too nicely, and it has been a real work horse for us. I may keep it as a farm truck and race car hauler with a camper slide in since it doesn't owe us anything.

The northeast is pretty hard on steel, so the rusted fitting didn't have me scratching my head much.

You'll really need to think hard about needing the diesel and needing a 1 ton. Doing the math, the diesel only makes sense if you're towing an over 8,000lb enclosed trailer at least 30k miles PER YEAR. Or if you're towing an over 25,000lb load. Not hitting either of those the diesel will probably never pay off compared to the new gas motors.

Based on your needs you will be infinitely more happy with a brand new F150 ecoboost or ram 1500 eco diesel. Why? They ride is significantly more comfortable than the new 1 tons and a complete world apart from your current truck, you'll think nothing about using the complete 400 mile range of the fuel tank (with my estimate of your load) without having to stop for a rest from fatigue. The fuel is cheaper and easier to find, the truck is much cheaper to begin with, and it'll require less maintenance with cheaper parts.

Unfortunately for you it sounds like your wife is stuck in the 90's where a truck should be an uncomfortable crashy unpleasant to be in vehicle thats basically a farm tractor with a higher top speed. The auto industry has finally moved past this using technology and engineering that isnt from the 1960's to give you trucks that are better at being trucks than ever before while also being a nice place to be rather than an uncomfortable clap trap.

IMHO....

Lots of people say "X truck sucks" or "Y truck is horrible", or "S feature ruins the engine" or "T style make it look foolish."

The reality is that most brand new trucks are going to be really good trucks. If they are not- I would be stunned if the dealer didn't do everything they could to make it right. Too much rides on FCA, GM, and Ford to have bad trucks.

So, that being said, SWMBO must like the truck. And you need to get the trim that can do the job you like. GM, Ford, Ram, Toyota, Nissan- whatever.

Although, wanting a diesel does narrow those choices a lot.

Drive as many as you can, get the one you like the most. They are all good.

(if it's the F, better for me, but it's YOUR truck, not mine)

In reply to Leafy: a 28 ft gooseneck with 3-4 horses and all accompanying gear? 3/4 ton is a minimum.

That said, my sister just bailed on her 6.4 Ford and bought a new Dodge (in the configuration you describe). The Dodge dealership gave them a great price on a loaded up 3/4 ton and so far so good.

Leafy wrote: You'll really need to think hard about needing the diesel and needing a 1 ton. Doing the math, the diesel only makes sense if you're towing an over 8,000lb enclosed trailer at least 30k miles PER YEAR. Or if you're towing an over 25,000lb load. Not hitting either of those the diesel will probably never pay off compared to the new gas motors. Based on your needs you will be infinitely more happy with a brand new F150 ecoboost or ram 1500 eco diesel. Why? They ride is significantly more comfortable than the new 1 tons and a complete world apart from your current truck, you'll think nothing about using the complete 400 mile range of the fuel tank (with my estimate of your load) without having to stop for a rest from fatigue. The fuel is cheaper and easier to find, the truck is much cheaper to begin with, and it'll require less maintenance with cheaper parts. Unfortunately for you it sounds like your wife is stuck in the 90's where a truck should be an uncomfortable crashy unpleasant to be in vehicle thats basically a farm tractor with a higher top speed. The auto industry has finally moved past this using technology and engineering that isnt from the 1960's to give you trucks that are better at being trucks than ever before while also being a nice place to be rather than an uncomfortable clap trap.

No half-ton truck has the towing capacity for what we're doing. As I noted, it's a 28' gooseneck with three horses and all the gear required to show said money munchers.

We choose the diesel because it's New England, and everything is hills. It may not be a NEED, but the torque makes towing much easier and relaxing for everybody involved, including the animals, so it's a WANT. There's a big difference between capability on paper and capability in real life.

With the trailer on, our current truck isn't crashy in the least, in fact it rides really nicely. Don't mistake "truckiness" for crashy, it's more a feeling of solidity.

She found a 2014 F350 Lariat marked down $10k that we're going to check out tonight.

Exactly. You don't just get the diesel to save a couple of bucks. You get it because it does stuff a gas engine don't do.

I'm still loving my 2010 Dodge 2500. I went with the 3/4 ton for the softer springs, then threw in a set of airbags so it can deal with a load. Makes for a more comfortable ride on the rare occasions that it's empty. Mine's also relatively stripped down, so the cost wasn't terrible and there was no benefit in buying used due to resale value. I've found that the 3/4 tons also don't get marked down the way that half tons are, at least not at the non-pimp end of the market.

I treat it like I own it, so the truck is not falling apart.

The Cummins has an integrated exhaust brake, so I'd expect the other two to have the same. It's great. That, satellite radio and an integrated brake controller are the high points.

10 years in a Duramax and no complaints. $50k can get you in a nicely option Dmax. If the Ford is proving reliable then it's. Good bet as well but the prices I've seen lately keep me looking else where.

Drove a new Ram the other day. Interior is very nice but I'm pretty sure my LBZ Dmax on the low setting is making more power. I've owned one Dodge and that was enough

DaveEstey wrote:

Leafy wrote: You'll really need to think hard about needing the diesel and needing a 1 ton. Doing the math, the diesel only makes sense if you're towing an over 8,000lb enclosed trailer at least 30k miles PER YEAR. Or if you're towing an over 25,000lb load. Not hitting either of those the diesel will probably never pay off compared to the new gas motors. Based on your needs you will be infinitely more happy with a brand new F150 ecoboost or ram 1500 eco diesel. Why? They ride is significantly more comfortable than the new 1 tons and a complete world apart from your current truck, you'll think nothing about using the complete 400 mile range of the fuel tank (with my estimate of your load) without having to stop for a rest from fatigue. The fuel is cheaper and easier to find, the truck is much cheaper to begin with, and it'll require less maintenance with cheaper parts. Unfortunately for you it sounds like your wife is stuck in the 90's where a truck should be an uncomfortable crashy unpleasant to be in vehicle thats basically a farm tractor with a higher top speed. The auto industry has finally moved past this using technology and engineering that isnt from the 1960's to give you trucks that are better at being trucks than ever before while also being a nice place to be rather than an uncomfortable clap trap.

No half-ton truck has the towing capacity for what we're doing. As I noted, it's a 28' gooseneck with three horses and all the gear required to show said money munchers. We choose the diesel because it's New England, and everything is hills. It may not be a NEED, but the torque makes towing much easier and relaxing for everybody involved, including the animals, so it's a WANT. There's a big difference between capability on paper and capability in real life. With the trailer on, our current truck isn't crashy in the least, in fact it rides really nicely. Don't mistake "truckiness" for crashy, it's more a feeling of solidity. She found a 2014 F350 Lariat marked down $10k that we're going to check out tonight.

How heavy are we talking here? Correctly optioned many of the half ton truck exceed the towing capacities of the 3/4ton trucks of the 2000's. We're talking over 11,000 lbs here from a half ton truck. And with the modern towing standards calculations that would be closer to 15,000lbs of yesteryear. And with 6 speed and larger transmissions and much better computer logic the gap in towing up monster hills between the gaser and the diesel are a lot smaller than you would think. The engine certainly doesnt care if its got to spin at 5k for a couple miles up a huge hill in 3rd gear at 70mph, and as long as you dont look at the tach you wont care either because the new trucks are so quite inside. Truckyness is that feeling that you just ran over a quarter and you can tell if its heads up or tails. You dont want that for a long haul, thats what makes you want to get out and take breaks ever hour, rather than pull for the 4-8 hours that the full tank of gas gives you.

What hills in New England? We dont have hills. Go tow through PA once on your way out west and tell me New England has hills, we just have long bumps.

At the end of the day, it would appear he is pretty set on the diesel leafy. I agree that a diesel may not truly be required, but that's his decision, and the diesels are definitely "less stressful" to drive.

Having said that, I have no qualms towing 12k lbs with my 2007.5 6.0L 6 speed GMC 2500HD. Its a dream, and it has none of the downsides that go with diesels. That is towing an open trailer though, an enclosed trailer/horse trailer would be a lot worse.

In reply to Leafy: There's a big difference between paper capabilities and real world capabilities. You think a half-ton would be fine, you're entitled to share your opinion and your input is appreciated. I'm not interested in half-ton trucks, I don't believe it's a solution for our situation based on my experience hauling.

There are no standardized measures for towing capability so I don't put much weight on manufacturer ratings. I know our current 3/4 ton rig does a great job and we've never had any complaints about it, but a little more bed capacity would be nice with the gooseneck and the price difference between a new 3/4 and 1-ton truck is negligible.

SAE2807 my bother, its been the standard for tow ratings since 2013 with all major manufacturers. It even accounts for things like cooling system capabilities. You really can tow right up to the limit without white knuckle driving now.

Pretty sure the big 3 do not adhere to SAE2807. Only Toyota does.

Leafy wrote: SAE2807 my bother, its been the standard for tow ratings since 2013 with all major manufacturers. It even accounts for things like cooling system capabilities. You really can tow right up to the limit without white knuckle driving now.

that is your opinion, we get it. I don't like towing at the limit with my half ton. It is really not a comfortable proposition in the least. My max is just shy of 7k lbs. I've been over that before, and while there is enough engine and cooling, the chassis isn't up to it.

DaveEstey wrote: Pretty sure the big 3 do not adhere to SAE2807. Only Toyota does.

Ford even says it in some of their ads. Toyota was just the early adopter, it dropped their two ratings by thousands of pounds when they introduced it.